The Left and Free Speech (user search)
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  The Left and Free Speech (search mode)
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Author Topic: The Left and Free Speech  (Read 1801 times)
Slander and/or Libel
Figs
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,338


Political Matrix
E: -6.32, S: -7.83

« on: March 21, 2016, 12:52:52 PM »

(Watching a little sh**t head get knocked out by an old man is pretty awesome though...and I, like everybody else, would like to see more of that.)

Truly a champion of freedom.
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Slander and/or Libel
Figs
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,338


Political Matrix
E: -6.32, S: -7.83

« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2016, 07:26:20 AM »

That would be nice, but this one isn't really confusing at all.  I understand your fellow travelers have abandoned this thread, but maybe you could pm one and ask why you're wrong here.

I agree with the spirit of what you're saying. I think part of the problem, though, is that First Amendment rhetoric tends to get so muddled and weird. It's completely true, to the point of not having to be said, that a private party doesn't have any obligation under the First Amendment to let you stay on their property and say things they don't want you to say. Absolutely true. The ejection of such parties is in no way an erosion of free speech.

But the argument is quite frequently made that protests erode the right to free speech by trying to shut it down. This, again, is untrue enough as to not need explanation.

Both of these arguments rely on the spirit of the idea of free speech, not the letter of the First Amendment. It's just a matter of which side of a particular issue an interlocutor finds himself as to whether he argues that protest or disallowing protest is a force eroding the principle of free speech.
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Slander and/or Libel
Figs
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,338


Political Matrix
E: -6.32, S: -7.83

« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2016, 07:44:23 AM »

What defines your threshold for when a protest is intended to voice an opinion and when it's intended to stop someone from speaking? Have the protestors at Trump events crossed that line? Why and how?
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Slander and/or Libel
Figs
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,338


Political Matrix
E: -6.32, S: -7.83

« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2016, 09:26:54 AM »

I'm not even necessarily disagreeing. I'm just wondering where we got this from, that the motivation of protestors at Trump events was to shut the whole event down. I may be missing something incredibly obvious, but I don't recall ever seeing this actually happening ever.
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Slander and/or Libel
Figs
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,338


Political Matrix
E: -6.32, S: -7.83

« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2016, 09:49:08 AM »

Trump cancelled that event, saying the police told him to, and then the police said they told him no such thing. Feels like it was a move designed to elicit exactly the type of response you're giving right now, that the shameful left had shut down Trump's speech through endangering people's safety.
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Slander and/or Libel
Figs
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,338


Political Matrix
E: -6.32, S: -7.83

« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2016, 09:58:57 AM »

I have no interest in "but your side does it too." Those arguments are stupid and not even arguments.

But dismissing "prove it" is kind of not really helpful, isn't it? If you're making claims about the behavior of a group and can't really back up that they behave as you say they do, then doesn't that undermine the argument? I'm not saying what you said has never happened, but showing that it does feels like it should be part of the argument. I'm not even talking about doing research and presenting sources. Just talking about more than just generalities, is all.
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Slander and/or Libel
Figs
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,338


Political Matrix
E: -6.32, S: -7.83

« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2016, 10:32:57 AM »

I suppose I would be more interested in engaging in this discussion if you didn't insist on precharacterizing what my beliefs are. I'm not offended or anything, just not terribly interested if this is the tone that the whole thing is going to have.
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