2009 Atlasian Economic Relief and Recovery Bill (Law'd)

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Have any of you considered the consequences of this spending. Inflation anybody?

Remember, we actually have an active GM now.

If any inflation were created it would actually help and a falling dollar helps our exports and our manufacturing sector.

Exactly. Assuming we have a similar recession to the US, deflation has been so severe that the inflation caused by this spending would either be minimal or simply right the ship.

I'm just worried about hyperinflation down the road. Of course, BrandonH hasn't given us numbers on the national debt and such yet.

The temporary spending in this bill will not do anything to inflation long-term. Only injecting massive amounts of liquid capital Fed-style could do that and we don't have a Fed so...

We don't have a Fed?

[afleitch]

Aye, belatedly, FTR.

My god this bill is boring the hell out of me. I know that's not very Senator like to say but there you go

[Lief 🗽]

I'm pretty sure we do have a Fed (granfathered in from the United States) unless the Senate passed a bill getting rid of it or something. It's just not something we model in the game.

[afleitch]

I'm pretty sure we do have a Fed (granfathered in from the United States) unless the Senate passed a bill getting rid of it or something. It's just not something we model in the game.

Id say we do based on how we've legislated in the past.

[Purple State]

I'm pretty sure we do have a Fed (granfathered in from the United States) unless the Senate passed a bill getting rid of it or something. It's just not something we model in the game.

Id say we do based on how we've legislated in the past.

Do we decide what it does? Or do we assume it does what the US one does? Our economy could very well vary from the US economy soon enough. The Fed wouldn't be expected to address the two situations in the same way.

[Marokai Backbeat]

After NCY's I'll introduce my final amendment (that may or may not be difficult to work in and might cause a bit of controversy, but whatevs) and then I'll be ready to just let this go forward. I think we're nearly done here, finally.

[MasterJedi]

I hereby open up a vote on this amendment. Please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain.

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Aye

[Purple State]

Aye

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Aye

[Fritz]

Aye

[MaxQue]

Aye

[afleitch]

Aye

[afleitch]

I will have to take some time to look over this bill; see if I can run the figures through to see how much everything is going to cost; same goes for any tax reduction. If it's not too laborious (!) i'll post a calculation here. Hopefully I can get access to a good economic simulation program.

[MasterJedi]

With 6 Ayes, 0 Nays and 0 Abstentions this amendment has passed.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I will have to take some time to look over this bill; see if I can run the figures through to see how much everything is going to cost; same goes for any tax reduction. If it's not too laborious (!) i'll post a calculation here. Hopefully I can get access to a good economic simulation program.

If you find such a program please feel free to share it.


By my rough estimates I think it is about $1.01 Trillion for this stimulus bill.

I eagerly await Marokai's last "controversial" amendment? oh, what could it possibly be that so controversial.

[afleitch]

Can the current amended bill as it stands be pieced together for reference?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Can the current amended bill as it stands be pieced together for reference?

I still need to go back and check the amendment queue but here should be the current version of the bill, unless I missed something:

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This is it from Page 13. The only thing added since then was my amendment which just passed(Section 1 Clause i) and an amendment dealing with the Automakers section(Section 3 Clause c), both which I just included.

[afleitch]

Thank you NCY

[afleitch]

Earned Income Tax Credit probably needs to be looked at. A blanket increase for a credit that some 25% (?) of those entitled to it do not claim doesn't really expand the depth of the scheme or help those most at need. I'll pick through it at the weekend.

[Purple State]

Earned Income Tax Credit probably needs to be looked at. A blanket increase for a credit that some 25% (?) of those entitled to it do not claim doesn't really expand the depth of the scheme or help those most at need. I'll pick through it at the weekend.

We have some time, but let's get this done before the election, eh?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Earned Income Tax Credit probably needs to be looked at. A blanket increase for a credit that some 25% (?) of those entitled to it do not claim doesn't really expand the depth of the scheme or help those most at need. I'll pick through it at the weekend.

Well we really can't do nothing about that but for those that do claim it, and I know it from experience that period in Jan-Feb during the year is usually the period when we buy cars, washers, dryers, refridgerators, stoves, etc. The reason being is that we have the money to do so and when you live pay check to pay check you can't do it any other time. These little things break or are getting rickedy and are going to break, will get purchased in that period. It boosts factory orders and orders of durable goods at the time when its usuall the glut of retail sales as people expend most of there money in Nov-Dec on the Christmas shopping season. People then tend to build up there savings during the first part of the next year or pay back bills that fell behind in that period. So the Income tax refunds generally provide a good counter-cyclical effect at a point in the year when there is very little economic activity. Since the EITC increases those returns I think the economic effect of it is important and its a good way to increase disposable incomes without raising the minimum wage, which impacts even fewer people probably, and some people tend to beleive it increases unemployement, I don't necessarily believe that, but EITC is much more acceptable cause that potential risk isn't posed.

[Purple State]

Earned Income Tax Credit probably needs to be looked at. A blanket increase for a credit that some 25% (?) of those entitled to it do not claim doesn't really expand the depth of the scheme or help those most at need. I'll pick through it at the weekend.

Well we really can't do nothing about that but for those that do claim it, and I know it from experience that period in Jan-Feb during the year is usually the period when we buy cars, washers, dryers, refridgerators, stoves, etc. The reason being is that we have the money to do so and when you live pay check to pay check you can't do it any other time. These little things break or are getting rickedy and are going to break, will get purchased in that period. It boosts factory orders and orders of durable goods at the time when its usuall the glut of retail sales as people expend most of there money in Nov-Dec on the Christmas shopping season. People then tend to build up there savings during the first part of the next year or pay back bills that fell behind in that period. So the Income tax refunds generally provide a good counter-cyclical effect at a point in the year when there is very little economic activity. Since the EITC increases those returns I think the economic effect of it is important and its a good way to increase disposable incomes without raising the minimum wage, which impacts even fewer people probably, and some people tend to beleive it increases unemployement, I don't necessarily believe that, but EITC is much more acceptable cause that potential risk isn't posed.

Also, with the publicity of this bill, hopefully more people will realize they are eligible.

[Vepres]

How do the honorable Senators feel about a decrease in the capital gains tax?

[Purple State]

How do the honorable Senators feel about a decrease in the capital gains tax?

No. If anything I would like to raise it when the economy stabilizes.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

How do the honorable Senators feel about a decrease in the capital gains tax?

No. If anything I would like to raise it when the economy stabilizes.

I would like to abolish it for those that make less then $250,000 a year, and drop it to 15% for those that make more then that, The same goes for the Dividend and interest taxes, once the economy stabilizes more. I would drop the Corporate Income Tax rate to 25% to reduce outsourcing and remove a lot of exemptions and deductions that have been worked in due to the special interests. The exception being the Auto companies and Alternative Energy companies.  I would then create either a Corporate Profits tax, or a Corporate Consumption tax to discourage short-term profit making in favor of long term investment.