2009 Atlasian Economic Relief and Recovery Bill (Law'd)

[afleitch]

I support helping Atlasian automakers because many workers would lose their jobs if the automaker collaspes. Not because I think than those businesses should survive.

I empathise with that strongly, however far too often we have fought to save 'jobs' as straightjackets rather than target retraining and reskilling of workers. The Modified Welfare Reform Act adds some protection there but this too could be amended.

I would prefer to see workers reskilled and moved on to new jobs etc than simply propping up their industry. As the workforce ages and few new workers take their place it makes that industry more precarious particularly if it does not attract inward investment. It is suprising how many industries have failed due to demographic changes in the avaliable workforce rather than due to the economic climate or government policy.

[Purple State]

My only problem with letting carmakers fail in the current economic environment is that weakness during such a major recession does not necessarily indicate general weakness. Few could have predicted the need to weather such a storm and the crisis wasn't started in the auto companies. People who may want cars are scared or can't get a loan to buy a car simply because of the troubles in the loan markets. So the current demand for cars does not reflect what it would be if people could get proper funds. They don't deserve to fail in such a climate.

[Franzl]

My only problem with letting carmakers fail in the current economic environment is that weakness during such a major recession does not necessarily indicate general weakness. Few could have predicted the need to weather such a storm and the crisis wasn't started in the auto companies. People who may want cars are scared or can't get a loan to buy a car simply because of the troubles in the loan markets. So the current demand for cars does not reflect what it would be if people could get proper funds. They don't deserve to fail in such a climate.

Seems pretty clear actually....Ford made good economic decisions, and is now able to sell products that are up to international standards, and GM made poor economic decisions, clinging for too long to gas guzzling cars (like the Hummer).

I think GM clearly does deserve to fail in such a climate.

[MasterJedi]

I hereby open up a vote on this amendment. Please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain.

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Aye

[Marokai Backbeat]

Aye

[Fritz]

Aye

[Hash]

aye

[tmthforu94]

Aye

[MaxQue]

Aye

[Purple State]

Aye

My only problem with letting carmakers fail in the current economic environment is that weakness during such a major recession does not necessarily indicate general weakness. Few could have predicted the need to weather such a storm and the crisis wasn't started in the auto companies. People who may want cars are scared or can't get a loan to buy a car simply because of the troubles in the loan markets. So the current demand for cars does not reflect what it would be if people could get proper funds. They don't deserve to fail in such a climate.

Seems pretty clear actually....Ford made good economic decisions, and is now able to sell products that are up to international standards, and GM made poor economic decisions, clinging for too long to gas guzzling cars (like the Hummer).

I think GM clearly does deserve to fail in such a climate.

I understand that and I applaud Ford for its success, but I don't think that these companies should all be liquidated because they couldn't prepare for economic catastrophe. This is why I don't support a government bailout for these companies, but rather a government-assisted bankruptcy that allows the companies to be acquired by others or lean down to a more bare-bones but viable company.

[Vepres]

Could somebody post the bill as currently amended so we don't have to read through all this stuff?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Aye

Could somebody post the bill as currently amended so we don't have to read through all this stuff?

The reporter doesn't want to read.

[MasterJedi]

With 8 Ayes, 0 Nays and 0 Abstentions this amendment has passed.

[MasterJedi]

I hereby open up a vote on this amendment. Please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain.

Section 3 is amended to read:

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Aye

[Marokai Backbeat]

Corporate tax cuts are incredibly ineffective stimulus, and I don't think such a thing would be particularly helpful for the auto businesses anywho. As for the emergency loans, I think they're grossly inadequate.

However, didn't Franzl agree to 10 billion for the emergency loans?

Nay for now.

[Fritz]

Aye

[afleitch]

Aye

[tmthforu94]

Aye

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

5 Billion is not enough, the rest of it is great.

Nay unfortunately

[Purple State]

Aye

We can raise it to 10 billion in another amendment.

[Purple State]

Where in the world is Carmen Master San ahem Jedi.

EDIT: Although really, where are 5 senators who still need to vote?

[Hash]

Aye

[MasterJedi]

With 6 Ayes, 2 Nays and 0 Abstentions this bill amendment has passed.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I propose the following to amend C in Section 3:

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Also I'm working on another amendment that can at least somewhat address who controls the projects, funds, etc. (Federal vs Regional, you know, all that jazz.)

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I propose the following to amend C in Section 3:

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Also I'm working on another amendment that can at least somewhat address who controls the projects, funds, etc. (Federal vs Regional, you know, all that jazz.)

That sounds reasonable enough.