$1.5 Trillion GOP Tax Cut Thread

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Not everyone lives in overpriced NYC, thankfully. Around here, $200K/year would allow a family of four to spend a measly 10% of their income on a 15-year mortgage and get a very nice home in an excellent school district. If they spent a more typical 30% on housing, they'd be able to easily get a new house in a lake-front gated community with a 20-year mortgage.

[Smash255]

Well, yes and no. People in NYC, for example, right now always itemize down to about 75k in income just on the basis of SALT. This does nothing for the people in the lower end of that group but is helpful for people around 300k or so (it also favors older people over younger ones since it's really all about whether you have a mortgage or not, but that's more of a feature of the mortgage deduction that has knock-on consequences here).

Well, if we go with NYC I agree that a single person with AGI of slightly below 100K would dip into itemized deductions just based on SALT (no mortgage as it is unlikely someone with 100K can afford to buy a home/condo in NYC.)  But under this plan the standard deduction surges to 12K which means you have to go up to nearly 150K to have SALT near standard deduction (again 150K income most likely will not allow someone to buy a home.)  But even in this case due to lower rates this taxpayer still pays less in taxes.  And even if we allow for SALT deductions to be allowed up to 10K under this GOP compromise plan it would still not help get it past the standard deductions of 12K unless charities is fairly high.

Of course I agree with you, this compromise helps at the marginal level for people more above 250K especially if they have a significant mortgage payment.  In NYC you will have to be at around 250K to be able to buy a reasonable condo or house.  But for incomes above 500K this does not help again as people with income above 500K will most likely have real estate taxes above 10K making this compromise not helpful.

So this idea is an idea for people in the 250K-500K range living in a high tax area (NYC, CA, NJ etc etc)

There are many homeowners in NYC with incomes in the $100,000 range with a mortgage....

[Badger]

Jesus Christ! Can we get over this G 200000 or 150 thousand a year is actually middle-class if you live on the Upper East Side because housing is so expensive. That such b*******! If one owns a condo in Manhattan that only has 2 bedrooms and a single bath but it still costs $300,000, guess what? You own a $300,000 property. The fact that it doesn't have 5 bedrooms in a backyard is a cultural choice not an economic one. You have a $300,000 home, and you are no more or less well off then suburbanite with A3 car garage by spending the same amount on their house.

At the risk of sounding like I'm adopting some of B rtd's cultural hipster ism, yes one might not have nearly as large of property by spending $300,000 on a home in Manhattan as one would in Suburban Ohio, but you live in f****** Manhattan! You are a short subway ride from most of the greatest museums in the world oh, the greatest restaurants in the world, and all the million other cultural attractions of New York City. But economically? You still have a $300,000 home. The fact that you have two bedrooms in a single bath does not make you one iota more "middle class". And someone with a $300,000 home in Suburban Ohio with a creek running through the backyard and a 3 car garage on top of their five bedrooms. They both have, let me double-check the math here, oh yes, $300,000 worth of property Equity when the property is paid off.

Yes, I get it that incomes are somewhat higher in New York City and San Francisco and places like that to accommodate for higher housing costs, and somewhat Higher Living costs all around, though primarily housing based, but let's quit diluting ourselves that there is that much of a difference. $150,000 a year is f****** rich whether you live in bumfuk Ohio or Manhattan. I am so sick oh, sick I tell you of the children of urban professionals on this forum trying to say that because they don't have a backyard or 500 square foot family and dining room area like their cousins in the Midwest that somehow there any West middle class.

The median household income in this country I believe someone cited is $59,000 a year. There is your middle class. Please for the love of Christ quit bleating on about how living in a mirror two or three bedroom condo with a paltry quarter Mill in San Francisco make someone middle or even upper middle class. Don't like it? Sell the goddamn thing for a quarter Mill and move out to the suburbs or the Midwest where you can buy that 5 bedroom 3 car garage mcmansion. But at least don't pretend that you are anything closer two middle class then the individuals in such a large home  simply as your home is smaller because you chose to live right near Fisherman's Wharf or Central Park.

Rant over, for now.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I seem to recall reaching my breaking point on that subject 20 or 30 pages ago, Badger.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

I find the American idea that owning a $300k property makes you outside the 'middle class' pretty funny tbh.

[King Lear]

If it was up to me we would raise the top rate to 50% and eliminate the cap on social security taxes.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

I find the American idea that owning a $300k property makes you outside the 'middle class' pretty funny tbh.

I don't think you could even find a condo that cheap around here. Maybe a 250 square foot studio condo?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

It is really not that complicated. The fact that is a such a large number of people who have absolutely nothing, no property. nothing. It pulls average down far below what you would consider "middle class", thus statements about someone having a $300,000 or $500,000 property, being "middle class" comes off as out of touch.

[Beet]

Class does not come down to any one property. Income, net worth, career prospects, age, health, who you know, it all factors in. The Clinton's net worth was "dead broke" in 2001 yet they were never below upper class.

[jaichind]

Well, yes and no. People in NYC, for example, right now always itemize down to about 75k in income just on the basis of SALT. This does nothing for the people in the lower end of that group but is helpful for people around 300k or so (it also favors older people over younger ones since it's really all about whether you have a mortgage or not, but that's more of a feature of the mortgage deduction that has knock-on consequences here).

Well, if we go with NYC I agree that a single person with AGI of slightly below 100K would dip into itemized deductions just based on SALT (no mortgage as it is unlikely someone with 100K can afford to buy a home/condo in NYC.)  But under this plan the standard deduction surges to 12K which means you have to go up to nearly 150K to have SALT near standard deduction (again 150K income most likely will not allow someone to buy a home.)  But even in this case due to lower rates this taxpayer still pays less in taxes.  And even if we allow for SALT deductions to be allowed up to 10K under this GOP compromise plan it would still not help get it past the standard deductions of 12K unless charities is fairly high.

Of course I agree with you, this compromise helps at the marginal level for people more above 250K especially if they have a significant mortgage payment.  In NYC you will have to be at around 250K to be able to buy a reasonable condo or house.  But for incomes above 500K this does not help again as people with income above 500K will most likely have real estate taxes above 10K making this compromise not helpful.

So this idea is an idea for people in the 250K-500K range living in a high tax area (NYC, CA, NJ etc etc)

There are many homeowners in NYC with incomes in the $100,000 range with a mortgage....

Sure.  I agree if there are homeowners with mortgages in NYC with income 100K AND are single then yes they do benefit under this compromise.  My impression is that that are not a lot of them (I agree there are some 100K married households in NYC that own a home) but I can for sure be wrong about that.

[Koharu]

And now, as predicted, the next goal of the GOP legislators is to tackle The Deficit via Medicare and Medicaid reform. As if this tax giveaway would have nothing to do with the deficit.

[Sestak]

Lankford on the floor claiming the defuction for classroom supplies was doubled, not removed. Is that true?

Also, he made the note that the Senate version doesn't gut tuition deductions the way the House one does - potential indicator he doesn't want that the final bill.

[America Needs a 13-6 Progressive SCOTUS]

Without a doubt, the most despicable section of the Senate bill is the section to destroy the arctic.

[junior chįmp]

Lankford on the floor claiming the defuction for classroom supplies was doubled, not removed. Is that true?

Also, he made the note that the Senate version doesn't gut tuition deductions the way the House one does - potential indicator he doesn't want that the final bill.

Who knows anymore.... Republicans lie so much these days, it's hard to take their word on anything

[Sestak]

Without a doubt, the most despicable section of the Senate bill is the section to destroy the arctic.

You mean the Murkowski bribe?

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

And we now know the Senate Dems/Indies: https://www.google.com/amp/abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/house-vote-government-funding-bill-avert-federal-shutdown/story%3fid=51646361

Full list of members:

Republicans: Brady (TX), Nunes, Roskam, Black, Noem, Upton, Shimkus, Bishop (UT), Young (AK), Hatch, Thune, Cornyn, Portman, Scott, Toomey, Enzi, Murkowski

Democrats: Neal, Levin, Doggett, Castor (FL), Grijalva, Wyden, Cantwell, Stabenow, Menendez, Carper, Murray

Independent Socialist: Sanders

[Sestak]

And we now know the Senate Dems/Indies: https://www.google.com/amp/abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/house-vote-government-funding-bill-avert-federal-shutdown/story%3fid=51646361

Full list of members:

Republicans: Brady (TX), Nunes, Roskam, Black, Noem, Upton, Shimkus, Bishop (UT), Young (AK), Hatch, Thune, Cornyn, Portman, Scott, Toomey, Enzi, Murkowski

Democrats: Neal, Levin, Doggett, Castor (FL), Grijalva, Wyden, Cantwell, Stabenow, Menendez, Carper, Murray

Independent Socialist: Sanders

Dem-caucusing Senate conferees: Washington, Washington, Oregon, Vermont, NJ, Delaware, ... and token Michigan.

Anyone else think this is bad optics?

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

And we now know the Senate Dems/Indies: https://www.google.com/amp/abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/house-vote-government-funding-bill-avert-federal-shutdown/story%3fid=51646361

Full list of members:

Republicans: Brady (TX), Nunes, Roskam, Black, Noem, Upton, Shimkus, Bishop (UT), Young (AK), Hatch, Thune, Cornyn, Portman, Scott, Toomey, Enzi, Murkowski

Democrats: Neal, Levin, Doggett, Castor (FL), Grijalva, Wyden, Cantwell, Stabenow, Menendez, Carper, Murray

Independent Socialist: Sanders

Dem-caucusing Senate conferees: Washington, Washington, Oregon, Vermont, NJ, Delaware, ... and token Michigan.

Anyone else think this is bad optics?

No one cares about that.

[Brittain33]

Washington has no income tax, right?

[GeorgiaModerate]

Washington has no income tax, right?

Right.

[junior chįmp]

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[Obama-Biden Democrat]

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I can't see the Ayn Rand worshippers in the house being too happy with her amendments.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

It is really not that complicated. The fact that is a such a large number of people who have absolutely nothing, no property. nothing. It pulls average down far below what you would consider "middle class", thus statements about someone having a $300,000 or $500,000 property, being "middle class" comes off as out of touch.

Well, my main point was that everywhere outside the US 'middle class' means the upper strata of society.

[Antonio the Sixth]

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"Consider"

[Badger]

I seem to recall reaching my breaking point on that subject 20 or 30 pages ago, Badger.

Missed it. I bet it was epic.