UK General Discussion: 2017 and onwards, Mayhem

[Silent Hunter]

I just read up on Brown. Didn't know about the later criminal damage conviction.

It says something when a mace grab is not the craziest thing that happened today.

[Former President tack50]

How is the clock ticking for no deal? May is now able to stop Brexit at any time. That would kill her chances at remaining PM, but it would also kill the no deal scenario.

I now think a 2nd referendum (done under AV ironically) might be the best solution, with 3/4 options: No deal, May's deal, Remain, possibly throwing Norway deal as well.

[Lourdes]

What is a border poll?

[Coffein00]

What is a border poll?

A poll in Northen Ireland, if it should unite with the Republic of Ireland or stay united with the UK.

[morgieb]

I don't want Javid to be PM, but I'd I was a conservative I'd probably want him given he is broadly acceptable to all factions and doesn't have any glaring personality flaws (e.g. Hunt is too superficial, Leadsom is dumb, Gove is a weasel, BoJo is a human disaster)

Very funny business with the mace, although he could have theatrically waved it around like Heseltine.

I'm probably being too judgmental about right-wingers, but I feel like Javid's ethnic background could be a severe liability.

[Intell]

I don't want Javid to be PM, but I'd I was a conservative I'd probably want him given he is broadly acceptable to all factions and doesn't have any glaring personality flaws (e.g. Hunt is too superficial, Leadsom is dumb, Gove is a weasel, BoJo is a human disaster)

Very funny business with the mace, although he could have theatrically waved it around like Heseltine.

I'm probably being too judgmental about right-wingers, but I feel like Javid's ethnic background could be a severe liability.

No, unless we're talking about the far-right, conservatives love minorities that happen to conservatives so they can say we're not racist/implement policies that hurt poor minorities, Javid (a minority) is our leader!!!

[rc18]

I don't want Javid to be PM, but I'd I was a conservative I'd probably want him given he is broadly acceptable to all factions and doesn't have any glaring personality flaws (e.g. Hunt is too superficial, Leadsom is dumb, Gove is a weasel, BoJo is a human disaster)

Very funny business with the mace, although he could have theatrically waved it around like Heseltine.

I'm probably being too judgmental about right-wingers, but I feel like Javid's ethnic background could be a severe liability.

Considering the Conservatives are the only major party to have had a female leader (two in fact) and its base elect them PM then yes it’s not only judgemental but hypocritical. No other major party has demonstrated a willingness to elect a minority leader either, so what has this got to do with right wingers?

That said Javid would be awful for the Conservatives.  Another weak sauce leader unable to herd the cats. Acceptable to everyone will quickly turn into acceptable for no one.  Of course that’s not saying the Conservatives, or anyone, have many options given the dire lack of talent in Parliament.

[DaWN]

Of course that’s not saying the Conservatives, or anyone, have many options given the dire lack of talent in Parliament.

Pretty much the only reason May has survived as long as she has I'd say. The lack of any remotely viable successor is a very serious problem for when her position finally becomes untenable.

I don't think Javid would have any race-related problems however - enough Tory members who would have had a problem jumped ship to UKIP or wherever years ago, no doubt leaving a 'comfortable with non-white people' majority in the party membership. his problems stem from the fact he's a lightweight empty suit who would get found out more or less instantly. But again, what are the alternatives?

[Silent Hunter]

I don't want Javid to be PM, but I'd I was a conservative I'd probably want him given he is broadly acceptable to all factions and doesn't have any glaring personality flaws (e.g. Hunt is too superficial, Leadsom is dumb, Gove is a weasel, BoJo is a human disaster)

Very funny business with the mace, although he could have theatrically waved it around like Heseltine.

I'm probably being too judgmental about right-wingers, but I feel like Javid's ethnic background could be a severe liability.

Considering the Conservatives are the only major party to have had a female leader (two in fact) and its base elect them PM then yes it’s not only judgemental but hypocritical. No other major party has demonstrated a willingness to elect a minority leader either, so what has this got to do with right wingers?

Benjamin Disraeli was pretty minority.

[rc18]

I don't want Javid to be PM, but I'd I was a conservative I'd probably want him given he is broadly acceptable to all factions and doesn't have any glaring personality flaws (e.g. Hunt is too superficial, Leadsom is dumb, Gove is a weasel, BoJo is a human disaster)

Very funny business with the mace, although he could have theatrically waved it around like Heseltine.

I'm probably being too judgmental about right-wingers, but I feel like Javid's ethnic background could be a severe liability.

Considering the Conservatives are the only major party to have had a female leader (two in fact) and its base elect them PM then yes it’s not only judgemental but hypocritical. No other major party has demonstrated a willingness to elect a minority leader either, so what has this got to do with right wingers?

Benjamin Disraeli was pretty minority.

Well I was meaning minority in the sense of visible minority, which is really what those on the left care about. To them Jews are white and thus privileged already. Being massacred in the millions somehow doesn't change that formula.

But yes Disraeli does prove my wider point that it isn't conservatives who are the problem.

[rc18]

How will the UK government and everyone against Scottish independence justify blocking Scottish indyref2?
If it's good enough for the UK to have 2 referendums within 3 years, why can't Scotland call for a 2nd referendum (it will be 5 years since 2014 when the thing is done)?

A point leavers have been making for 2 1/2 years now as to why the EU referendum decision must be enacted.

But let's call the BS. You already stated you support Scottish independence so this just seems to be concern trolling.

[Former President tack50]

If there's a 2nd Brexit referendum and remain wins now, there's no reason for Scotland to call a 2nd referendum on independence. What would be the point then? Doesn't the SNP try to justify indyref2 on Scotland leaving the EU against its will?

[DaWN]

I mean there's still very little polling evidence that Yes even could win another referendum. Besides, I'll echo what I said in this thread a few weeks ago - Nicola Sturgeon has countless negative qualities, but stupidity is not one of them - she will not call a referendum she thinks she will lose, and even if she does, No will not repeat its mistakes that nearly cost them last time.

[DaWN]

Also anyone else find it a bit ironic that apparently the reaction of the Scots to the UK leaving a 'union' and causing a complete disaster is going to be an overwhelming desire to leave another 'union'?....

[DaWN]

^^ Why would it be a disaster? Czechoslovakia split, they're doing fine...
Some unions are unhealthy like Belgium and the UK, it's time to let go of our imperial legacy..

https://twitter.com/SkyNewsPolitics/status/1072463780007809024

^^ hmmm

I was referring to Brexit as the disaster. And really, trying to call Scotland being part of the union imperialism is pushing it a bit, don't you think? It's maybe not ideal for either side and definitely constitutional reforms will be necessary at some point in the medium term, but this isn't like India or some of the African states where we were clearly exploiting lands and peoples, the Scots are integrated democratically into the union.

I do get the feeling arguing about this could deprive us of all of our sanity though, so I'll leave it at that I think.

[morgieb]

I don't want Javid to be PM, but I'd I was a conservative I'd probably want him given he is broadly acceptable to all factions and doesn't have any glaring personality flaws (e.g. Hunt is too superficial, Leadsom is dumb, Gove is a weasel, BoJo is a human disaster)

Very funny business with the mace, although he could have theatrically waved it around like Heseltine.

I'm probably being too judgmental about right-wingers, but I feel like Javid's ethnic background could be a severe liability.

No, unless we're talking about the far-right, conservatives love minorities that happen to conservatives so they can say we're not racist/implement policies that hurt poor minorities, Javid (a minority) is our leader!!!

More talking about the risk of Blair/UKIP/May style voters bolting back to Labour.

[The Dowager Mod]

https://twitter.com/Number10cat/status/1072481229797240835

[Woody]

This is treason against the British people.

[Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️]

Does this seem right to those of you in the UK?

Brexit: All About May

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So May has a path she is doggedly pursuing. And if she continues to beat the odds and stay in charge, she will limit the options to her deal versus no deal. Not the the UK public will be happy with that.[/quote]

[Silent Hunter]

So May has a path she is doggedly pursuing. And if she continues to beat the odds and stay in charge, she will limit the options to her deal versus no deal. Not the the UK public will be happy with that.

I'm not sure that a referendum bill with just those two options would get through the Commons.

[PSOL]

After May asks for help, Germany's Merkel says no more Brexit negotiations
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu/after-may-asks-for-help-germanys-merkel-says-no-more-brexit-negotiations-idUSKBN1OA0MP

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May God save May.

[Silent Hunter]

The 48 letters are in. Confidence vote tonight.

[Former President tack50]

RIP Theresa May premiership (2016-2018)

F

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Wow, things seem to be going better for Macron right now than for May.

[parochial boy]

At this point I am actively supporting whatever leads to the most chaos.

You can only admire the Conservative party for managing to turn the UK into a laughing stock over party management on an issue that nobody even cared about