Do you think this country would be better off without suburbs?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Yes, and I am the most humble of men.

Then you must be looking into one of those mirrors that distort the image.

[opebo]

Exactly how much time have you spent in such a place?  I lived for four months in Redmond, Washington, in which the median income is around $66,000/year, and I never once encountered a person who was loaded with "hubris and unwarranted self-congratulation".

Oh please, such people usually think they are 'deserving' of their rewards because of some special personal qualities or value.

[Governor PiT]

less but not none.

[NDN]

Of course we'd be better off. Suburbia isn't a bad place to live, but the sort of lifestyle it represents is not sustainable in the least. Suburban "homes" overall are an incredibly inefficient use of land and resources. The only reason suburban life became "standard" in the first place in this country was because of unprecedented government subsidization plus cheap abundant gas. As gas prices increase, it will become increasingly uneconomical for people to live so far away from work, real commercial centers (not just the mall), etc. The government needs to start encouraging people to move to the cities (instead of basically encouraging suburban blight). Or at least utilize their neighborhoods much better than they do now.

[David S]

Why would anyone resurrect a two year old thread that was goofy when it was new?

[Padfoot]

Yes we'd be better off without suburbs but not because they are a "boring and sterile cultural wasteland."  The alleged lack of anything fun to do that BRTD always rants about has very little impact on the overall state of the country.  The really horrible thing about suburbs is their promotion and perpetuation of the car-culture and the resulting encroachment into America's farmland and remaining natural areas.

Suburbs don't kill culture, art, ideas, or fun as BRTD would have everyone believe.  What they are really eating up is our nation's pristine natural habitats, our natural resources, and our ability to produce food.  One of my biggest fears is that the US will have to begin importing more food than we export.  I have this fear because there was once a time when the US did not need to import oil.  Once we began importing oil we became embroiled in the mess Europe made of the Middle East.  I can only imagine what international horror we'll have to jump into if we ever have to begin importing corn or wheat.

[Verily]

One of my biggest fears is that the US will have to begin importing more food than we export.

You missed it. 2006 was the first year in which the US imported more food than it exported. (We still are net exporters of corn and wheat specifically, though.)

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

There was a brilliant bit on Sesame Street about this which is surprising considering its audience who would have no clue. But basically some lumberjack-looking muppet is wandering through a hilly prairie and starts singing about how much he loves the great outdoors and nature instead of living in a crowded urban area. Then behind him construction crews come in and begin to destroy the area, but he still keeps singing and apparently doesn't notice it. When the song's done he's surrounded by a bunch of malls, fast food restaurants and chain stores and doesn't notice until then that the "wide open spaces" he loves so much are no longer there.

That's basically what your typical exurbanite is like.

[patrick1]

There was a brilliant bit on Sesame Street about this which is surprising considering its audience who would have no clue. But basically some lumberjack-looking muppet is wandering through a hilly prairie and starts singing about how much he loves the great outdoors and nature instead of living in a crowded urban area. Then behind him construction crews come in and begin to destroy the area, but he still keeps singing and apparently doesn't notice it. When the song's done he's surrounded by a bunch of malls, fast food restaurants and chain stores and doesn't notice until then that the "wide open spaces" he loves so much are no longer there.

That's basically what your typical exurbanite is like.

Sesame Street Suburbs are Bad.  Elmo.  PBS.  Mankato, MN.  24 September 2007.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

No - I like (around) where I am.  Lincoln Park sucks, but Southgate, Wyandotte, Riverview, etc... is really nice.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I think unmitigated urban sprawl is a bad thing... however, I think everyone cramned in on each other like in Hong Kong would be horrific. The pollution of such concentrated population areas would be shocking.

I need space and greenery, I like living in suburbs, but the city is a bit like a whore - you visit her when you need her.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

Yes. Very much so and not just for the reason that if we lived with housing patterns/lifestyles more like western europe we'd STILL be an  oil exporter 30 years after domestic oil production peaked. If post-WWII development had focused on expanding current cities and building highrise apartments/more multi-household buildings with commercial districts nearby we'd have much less sprawl. Another positive effect would have been no rise of the sunbelt(the northeast corridor dominates politics/culture because building would be focused on expanding of existing cities and no favoring dixie). Also without massive suburban sprawl we'd have more natural land/farmland free(as other posters have pointed out importing corn/wheat would lead us to being embroiled in international... trouble). Also suburbia fosters the conformist anthill mentality which causes alot of our problems here in the US.

[Willy Woz]

Yes. Very much so and not just for the reason that if we lived with housing patterns/lifestyles more like western europe we'd STILL be an  oil exporter 30 years after domestic oil production peaked. If post-WWII development had focused on expanding current cities and building highrise apartments/more multi-household buildings with commercial districts nearby we'd have much less sprawl. Another positive effect would have been no rise of the sunbelt(the northeast corridor dominates politics/culture because building would be focused on expanding of existing cities and no favoring dixie). Also without massive suburban sprawl we'd have more natural land/farmland free(as other posters have pointed out importing corn/wheat would lead us to being embroiled in international... trouble). Also suburbia fosters the conformist anthill mentality which causes alot of our problems here in the US.

One of the dumbest things I have heard all year.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

Yes. Very much so and not just for the reason that if we lived with housing patterns/lifestyles more like western europe we'd STILL be an  oil exporter 30 years after domestic oil production peaked. If post-WWII development had focused on expanding current cities and building highrise apartments/more multi-household buildings with commercial districts nearby we'd have much less sprawl. Another positive effect would have been no rise of the sunbelt(the northeast corridor dominates politics/culture because building would be focused on expanding of existing cities and no favoring dixie). Also without massive suburban sprawl we'd have more natural land/farmland free(as other posters have pointed out importing corn/wheat would lead us to being embroiled in international... trouble). Also suburbia fosters the conformist anthill mentality which causes alot of our problems here in the US.

One of the dumbest things I have heard all year.

No. My point is actually valid. Suburbia's downsides(too many to name) are far worse than any benefits(seeing green, no poors nearby, ghetto "culture" kept far away).

[Ban my account ffs!]

I actually think the question is poorly worded.  The definition of suburb is not "a sprawling mass of low density commercial and residential properties tied together by inefficient infrastructure."

It simply means the area immediately bordering a city.

Of course our country would be better off without urban sprawl, as it is very inefficient and expensive to maintain (hence the depreciation of property value in many suburbs very soon after they are built).  Once the people that first moved into the 'burb move out, they are often replaced with lower income people who simply cannot afford to keep up their houses nor are they willing to pay the high taxes necessary to maintain the very expensive infrastructure, which only becomes more expensive as their income drops.

This effect would be reduced if we practiced denser building practices and had more public transit that was built with public tax dollars and operated with user fees.

Suburban America was born long before WWII, though.  Cities sprawled out from their centers with single family housing for decades before hand.  The difference was that the family was larger, so even with fewer housing units, the population was quite a bit higher, thus public transit was more effective since the density was higher.

Public transit to the suburbs these days is almost impossible except in park and ride situations.  But we could be reaching a point where gas is so expensive that even if it costs $8 each way to take public transit to work, it might be worth it.