On camera, AfD crowd praises murder of German CDU politician by a Nazi

[Tender Branson]

https://mobile.twitter.com/ARDKontraste/status/1146822227557531649

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/07/world/europe/germany-murder-far-right-neo-nazi-luebcke.html

https://www.derstandard.at/story/2000105953716/pegida-demonstranten-entsetzen-mit-aussagen-zu-luebcke-mord

Disgusting, evil crowd.

[CumbrianLefty]

But......bUt iTS ThE lEFt WhO aRE tHe ReaL ThUGs!!

[Frodo]

The only 'good' neo-Nazi is a dead neo-Nazi. 

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

The only 'good' neo-Nazi is a dead neo-Nazi. 

"So much for the tolerant left!"

[Santander]

I was just in Saxony. Most AfD people are great.

[DavidB.]

None of these horrible things - this horrible murder case, all the other horrible murder and rape cases - would have happened if Merkel had just kept the border closed.

Interesting, though, that the left didn't give a damn when 14-year old Susanna Feldmann from Mainz was raped and killed by one of Merkel's immigrants. AfD were the only ones who cared.

[Some of My Best Friends Are Gay]

None of these horrible things - this horrible murder case, all the other horrible murder and rape cases - would have happened if Merkel had just kept the border closed.

Interesting, though, that the left didn't give a damn when 14-year old Susanna Feldmann from Mainz was raped and killed by one of Merkel's immigrants. AfD were the only ones who cared.

Nice whataboutism.

All I have to say is that it's incredibly frightening. the times we live in are seeing far-right groups get more and more mainstream, and once their disgusting ideology gets even more widely accepted by racist whites, you can expect another holocaust to happen down the road. of course people like you will still support those Nazis until it's you who're being treated like rabid animals.

[Velasco]

None of these horrible things - this horrible murder case, all the other horrible murder and rape cases - would have happened if Merkel had just kept the border closed.

I understand you oppose that Merkel opened the borders for Syrian refugees, although I admire her for doing so (while oppose many of her policies). However, your claim is unacceptable as you are justifying the murder of the CDU politician, charging Merkel for the moral responsibility and trying to relativize the horrible crime by diluting it in an alleged wave of rapes and murders. This is a good example of moral relativism and slander.  

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

General note: I know it's an emotional topic, but please keep it within boundries.

[DavidB.]

None of these horrible things - this horrible murder case, all the other horrible murder and rape cases - would have happened if Merkel had just kept the border closed.

I understand you oppose that Merkel opened the borders for Syrian refugees, although I admire her for doing so (while oppose many of her policies). However, your claim is unacceptable as you are justifying the murder of the CDU politician, charging Merkel for the moral responsibility and trying to relativize the horrible crime by diluting it in a wave of alleged rapes and murders. This is a good example of moral relativism and slander.  

Your comment is "slander", because I am justifying absolutely nothing. Murdering people is never justified. And murdering politicians endangers our democracies. This murder case is indeed horrible and the moral responsibility lies with the perpetrator. Let there be no misunderstanding about this.

At the same time, Merkel's decision to open the borders and welcome waves and waves of young men from different cultures that clash with ours, men who often don't respect ours, was always going to lead to ethnic tensions and regrettable cases of violent outbursts (for which the perpetrators remain responsible). This case is one of these horrible consequences.

Meanwhile, you don't care about the cases of rape and murder perpetrated by immigrants. You really don't care. So your sudden condemnation of this case is opportunism-driven - "look how bad those right-wingers are" - and hypocritical.

[Velasco]

You are justifying the crime with your allegations. Hatred for immigrants may lead to moral relativism and eventually (in extreme cases) to hate crimes. It's a wrong direction.

[DavidB.]

You are justifying the crime with your allegations. Hatred for immigrants may lead to moral relativism and eventually (in extreme cases) to hate crimes. It's a wrong direction.

With the same type of reasoning, I could say you are justifying the murder and rape of Susanna Feldmann, justifying the mass attacks on women in Cologne and all across our continent. But I wouldn't say that.

However, yes, it is because of people like you, who are willing to endanger the basic safety of our peoples, that this 14-year Jewish girl wasn't safe in Germany. If it were up to you, she would also not be safe in Israel. So your moral panic really doesn't faze me. Your direction is wrong.

[Santander]

None of these horrible things - this horrible murder case, all the other horrible murder and rape cases - would have happened if Merkel had just kept the border closed.

I understand you oppose that Merkel opened the borders for Syrian refugees, although I admire her for doing so (while oppose many of her policies).

While you may admire her for doing so, I think it is hard to look objectively look at where that decision has taken us and not characterize it as a failure, with the ripples threatening to tear the West apart.

[DavidB.]

You literally did and then deleted your post two minutes later.

I suddenly remembered Michelle Obama's beautiful comment and decided to rephrase.

[DavidB.]

The only people who tend to use my background against me are left-wingers, and remarks from people like you only serve to make sure dissenting minorities slavishly return to the left-wing fold. My contacts with people within AfD have been more than pleasant. Those thousands of ordinary AfD members aren't even remotely similar to East German neo-Nazis wrecking havoc.

Just last month, AfD Hamburg invited Orit Arfa. And following the murder of Susanna Feldmann, AfD were the only party who genuinely showed sympathy to the point where they thought cases like these should affect policymaking. The way other MPs rejected this minute of silence was disgusting (though unsurprising). I'm glad deportation laws have been tightened but come on, last month? It's all too little, too late, and the influx should never have happened in the first place - and AfD remain the only opposition party and the only party aiming to prevent such cases by tightening immigration laws.

[Velasco]

None of these horrible things - this horrible murder case, all the other horrible murder and rape cases - would have happened if Merkel had just kept the border closed.

I understand you oppose that Merkel opened the borders for Syrian refugees, although I admire her for doing so (while oppose many of her policies).

While you may admire her for doing so, I think it is hard to look objectively look at where that decision has taken us and not characterize it as a failure, with the ripples threatening to tear the West apart.

I wouldn't say Merkel's decision was a failure, among other things because it's too early to evaluate its impact. I think her decision was brave and humanitarian. Also, it was a difficult decision that entailed a high political cost including the rise of the AfD. However, it was the correct decision from a moral point of view and I admire her because of that.

[darklordoftech]

None of these horrible things - this horrible murder case, all the other horrible murder and rape cases - would have happened if Merkel had just kept the border closed.

I understand you oppose that Merkel opened the borders for Syrian refugees, although I admire her for doing so (while oppose many of her policies).

While you may admire her for doing so, I think it is hard to look objectively look at where that decision has taken us and not characterize it as a failure, with the ripples threatening to tear the West apart.

America is part of “the West”, and Europe’s inhabitants aren’t tearing America apart.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

If a foreigner rapes a woman, why should I view this as being any worse than a native-born citizen raping a woman? Is it better when step-father rapes his daughter than when an outsider rapes a native-born citizen?

Rape, murder and other horrors are common enough within countries and plenty of native-born citizens are perpetrators. It's telling that the usual suspects only bring these cases to our attention when the crimes are committed by outsiders - it's clear that they are not particularly concerned about the crime so much as they are concerned about the fact than an outsider committed the crime.

Clearly there is some sort of crime problem among refugees in Europe but we know that the usual suspects are disingenuous because they welcome mass deportations in North America, where immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than the native-born. They will say anything and do anything to spread hate against migrants.

[Santander]

None of these horrible things - this horrible murder case, all the other horrible murder and rape cases - would have happened if Merkel had just kept the border closed.

I understand you oppose that Merkel opened the borders for Syrian refugees, although I admire her for doing so (while oppose many of her policies).

While you may admire her for doing so, I think it is hard to look objectively look at where that decision has taken us and not characterize it as a failure, with the ripples threatening to tear the West apart.

America is part of “the West”, and Europe’s inhabitants aren’t tearing America apart.

"The West" is only meaningful as long as there is some degree of solidarity between its constituent nations. Clearly, that does not exist right now, and a strong argument could be made that what is going on in Europe only fanned the flames of Trumpism in the US.

[Velasco]

If a foreigner rapes a woman, why should I view this as being any worse than a native-born citizen raping a woman? (...)

Exactly, there's no difference between one offender and another. Focusing on outsiders alone is a symptom that reveals a certain bias against them. Some peoole call that racism or xenophobia. Condemning these attitudes is by no means equivalent to justify crimes perpetrated by outsiders. That would be moral relativism. Crime is always crime, regardless the tribe of the offender.

[Velasco]

If a foreigner rapes a woman, why should I view this as being any worse than a native-born citizen raping a woman?

Because all crime committed by foreigners is preventable with policy.

Your claim sounds incredibly absurd and stupid, as the only way to accomplish that is closing all countries to all kind of foreigners. However, assuming that all crime committed by foreigners is preventable, does this circumstance make the crimes committed by natives better? Is there an actual difference? Do you prefer "native rape", or something?

[Velasco]

So, would you lock the doors of your country to all foreigners? Do you think it's possible? When I say "all foreigners" I mean all kinds of people coming from outside, including tourists and business travellers. Crime is not only a matter of poor immigrants, affluent and well-being foreigners commit crimes too.

Countries are not families and not all my fellow countrymen are my relatives, even though I share a common language and culture with them. If they commit a crime, our common heritage won't make them better to my eyes. It's not possible to lock down a country in the same manner you lock your door at night. Only North Korea comes close to your concept. Countries  are made of open spaces and there is always movement and exchange, except in the house of Kim Jong Un. Would you ban commerce, tourism and all activities implying contact with foreigners?

[CumbrianLefty]

The conversion of parts of the right to not just overt nationalism but autarky, is fascinating.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

While I'm ready to admit that the policy failed in regard to provide a proper screening to weed out criminal elements, can we please not imply collective responsibility on the refugee/migrant community for the actions of minority?

[Former President tack50]

There is an undeniable truth and that is that immigrants in Europe commit more crimes than their share of the population. That is an easy to find fact. Interestingly, this is truer for 2nd generation immigrants born in Europe than for 1st generation immigrants born elsewhere. So arguably this is a failure of integration policies and not necesarily immigration?

I am unsure of the direction of crime rates in Europe in recient years. If I remember correctly there has been an increase but how large and widespread is that increase in the first place?

Plus even that does not mean that immigrants as a group should be criminalized. On the contrary we need to work harder to ensure that no one (immigrant or otherwise) commits crimes.

We could and should also adopt smarter immigration policies that ensure this doesn't happen in the future. But smarter immigration doesn't mean no or less immigration. I believe in Canada and the US immigrants actually commit a lower, not higher share of crimes than native born citizens. Maybe we should learn something from that (I am particularly biased towards Canada's point system in fact which ensures they get "good" immigrants I think).