United Kingdom Referendum on European Union Membership

[ingemann]

The vote will include: British, Irish and Commonwealth citizens over 18 who are resident in the UK, along with UK nationals who have lived overseas for less than 15 years. Members of the House of Lords and Commonwealth citizens in Gibraltar will also be eligible, unlike in a general election. Citizens from EU countries - apart from Ireland, Malta and Cyprus - will not get a vote.

In other words:
If your a British citizen and you've lived in Australia for the last 13 years - you can vote.
If your not a British citizen and you've lived in the UK for the last 13 years - you can't vote.

Well I do think that this should be something British citizens should decide, citizens of other countries can always leave if the vote end in a disaster, but honestly I'm not happy about the whole diaspora voting, people living outside a country don't suffer the consequences of their vote. You could argue that British citizens in other EU countries should be allowed to vote, simply because it will have significant effect on them.

[ingemann]

The vote will include: British, Irish and Commonwealth citizens over 18 who are resident in the UK, along with UK nationals who have lived overseas for less than 15 years. Members of the House of Lords and Commonwealth citizens in Gibraltar will also be eligible, unlike in a general election. Citizens from EU countries - apart from Ireland, Malta and Cyprus - will not get a vote.

In other words:
If your a British citizen and you've lived in Australia for the last 13 years - you can vote.
If your not a British citizen and you've lived in the UK for the last 13 years - you can't vote.

Well I do think that this should be something British citizens should decide, citizens of other countries can always leave if the vote end in a disaster, but honestly I'm not happy about the whole diaspora voting, people living outside a country don't suffer the consequences of their vote. You could argue that British citizens in other EU countries should be allowed to vote, simply because it will have significant effect on them.

I think there would've been uproar if we said people could only vote in the Scottish Independence Referendum if they were Scottish. (In fact, Yes would've won with 52% if that had happened, apparently). Ironically, some EU citizens voted no as they didn't want to risk leaving the EU...

The major difference are that there wasn't a separate Scottish citizenship, while there are a separate British citizenship. As such whether you're born in Scotland was secondary to whether you lived in Scotland, as Scots in the rest of UK would have kept their British citizenship. Through I wouldn't have supported other EU citizens right to vote for or against Scottish independence.

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I agree that letting the diaspora vote make it more likely that UK leave EU, and while I don't care much. I'm against that. But it's fundamental the right of a country's citizens to chose its future, not of foreign citizens.

[ingemann]

That's the crux of it for me. The European project has had this federalising ambition from the get go and our being a member of it for 43 years hasn't changed that one iota

Yes, but it would also be strange that UK membership would change that, remember it took almost a decade of begging for membership from the UK before it was let into the EEC. UK never entered EEC/EU from a position of strength and since it became member, it have worked day and night to weaken it own influence with harebrained schemes (like Turkish membership to weaken EU federalism) and alienate its allies (like the East Europeans). UK have much less influence than it should have, but it have always been a British choice, and not something forced down over it by others.

[ingemann]

How has the leave side addressed the issue of British citizens losing EU rights to retire in southern Europe without having to get a special non-EU citizen residence permit? I would think this would be an appealing argument for the remain side to appeal to older-middle aged voters.

Cameron prefers trying to scare the older population into voting Remain by stating their pensions would be at risk if Brexit happens.

There's nothing this idiot won't say in order to try to win this referendum.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/11/brexit-axe-state-pensions-david-cameron-nhs-cold-reality

It's entire up to the British parliament whether those things happens, no matter if it become a Yay or a Nay. So don't see this as a hollow warning of doom, you should instead see it as the threat it is.

[ingemann]

   How has the leave side addressed the issue of British citizens losing EU rights to retire in southern Europe without having to get a special non-EU citizen residence permit? I would think this would be an appealing argument for the remain side to appeal to older-middle aged voters.

They have not. I guess, they will be surpised when grandma shows on their doorstep asking for an attic to stay in.

Only the poorer English "expats" ergo the ones having a pension under 25 000€ annual will have to leave Spain. Of course many British people will likely say of course Spain will make a exception for them. Personally I doubt it, a interesting aspects you discover if you know any in non-British "expat" community in Spain, is how badly the Spanish talk about the British expats, you usual don't hear the same about the other groups, but for some reason the British is really unpopular. I don't know why, and neither did any of the Danish expats I know who have lived in retirement in Spain.

So people shouldn't be surprised if UK fail to reach a agreement with Spain about their expats.