Have we discussed this Priorities USA poll yet?

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Obvious agenda poll, but if you want to read it all


or wapo's summary:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2017/05/01/why-did-trump-win-new-research-by-democrats-offers-a-worrisome-answer/?utm_term=.875dfac3d0dc

[Technocracy Timmy]

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And that's become a meme at this point. A lot of people who now talk about a certain subset of Trump voters voting for him for economic grievances get lambasted for even thinking such a thing. There's this pervasive view now that Trump's victory was solely about cultural and racial grievances because the economy had improved for many people which was the rallying cry for much of the "America is already Great! #Imwithher" crowd.

Well if the soft Left can retain power and influence to steer the Democratic Party away from going further left on economics in order to keep their big money donor base happy then the racism talking point is a perfect way to absolve themselves of all blame. This was of course was always bullsh!t. The idea that a certain percentage of Americans suddenly became more racist in 4 years was a cop out. I've even seen people on this forum argue that Obama-Trump voters were still motivated to vote for Trump because they were racist. It's a never ending argument. They'll probably downplay the results of this poll by saying that these Obama-Trump voters lied to pollsters and deep down voted for him only because of his incendiary rhetoric.

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

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And that's become a meme at this point. A lot of people who now talk about a certain subset of Trump voters voting for him for economic grievances get lambasted for even thinking such a thing. There's this pervasive view now that Trump's victory was solely about cultural and racial grievances because the economy had improved for many people which was the rallying cry for much of the "America is already Great! #Imwithher" crowd.

Well if the soft Left can retain power and influence to steer the Democratic Party away from going further left on economics in order to keep their big money donor base happy then the racism talking point is a perfect way to absolve themselves of all blame. This was of course was always bullsh!t. The idea that a certain percentage of Americans suddenly became more racist in 4 years was a cop out. I've even seen people on this forum argue that Obama-Trump voters were still motivated to vote for Trump because they were racist. It's a never ending argument. They'll probably downplay the results of this poll by saying that these Obama-Trump voters lied to pollsters and deep down voted for him only because of his incendiary rhetoric.

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-36253275

Zero specific mentions of economic anxiety, mostly mentions of him being "for the people", "an outsider", "a businessman who works hard", and two or three about immigration. Of course a push poll can find these kinds of things if it wants to, but people don't think critically about these things. Often, it isn't "I like this persons economic policies" as much as "I just like this person".  Add to that the fact that racists often have things like "this one's different" at times, and xenophobia isn't as simple as "voted for a black guy = can't be racist or ever possibly get swept up in xenophobia ever".

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Add to that the fact that racists often have things like "this one's different" at times, and xenophobia isn't as simple as "voted for a black guy = can't be racist or ever possibly get swept up in xenophobia ever".

This is beside the point. If you're looking for voters who can't ever be racist or get swept up in xenophobia you're looking at a cool ... three percent of the electorate? Ultimately, you have to be amoral about this sort of thing - as long as they vote for you, it doesn't really matter what they think.

Plenty of undoubtedly racist people voted for LBJ, Carter, Bill Clinton and Obama. They voted that way because whatever their bigotry or bias, ultimately they saw the Democrats as offering something to them, even if they may have grumbled about civil rights or whatever. And ultimately, it was good for civil rights because it allowed Democrats in their post-CRA mode to enter power and maintain the gains of the civil rights movement.

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

Add to that the fact that racists often have things like "this one's different" at times, and xenophobia isn't as simple as "voted for a black guy = can't be racist or ever possibly get swept up in xenophobia ever".

This is beside the point. If you're looking for voters who can't ever be racist or get swept up in xenophobia you're looking at a cool ... three percent of the electorate? Ultimately, you have to be amoral about this sort of thing - as long as they vote for you, it doesn't really matter what they think.

Plenty of undoubtedly racist people voted for LBJ, Carter, Bill Clinton and Obama. They voted that way because whatever their bigotry or bias, ultimately they saw the Democrats as offering something to them, even if they may have grumbled about civil rights or whatever. And ultimately, it was good for civil rights because it allowed Democrats in their post-CRA mode to enter power and maintain the gains of the civil rights movement.

Why did not one of the trump supporters in the collection of quotes I made cite economic anxiety? How do we know that Hillary's image problem was started by a perception of economic conservatism? The poll didn't publish party favorability for Obama/trump voters, even though they did for dropoffs. Why would they ask the question to only one group? I get the feeling those numbers wouldn't make the point they wanted. Is there any evidence outside of this agenda poll?

[Technocracy Timmy]

Add to that the fact that racists often have things like "this one's different" at times, and xenophobia isn't as simple as "voted for a black guy = can't be racist or ever possibly get swept up in xenophobia ever".

This is beside the point. If you're looking for voters who can't ever be racist or get swept up in xenophobia you're looking at a cool ... three percent of the electorate? Ultimately, you have to be amoral about this sort of thing - as long as they vote for you, it doesn't really matter what they think.

Plenty of undoubtedly racist people voted for LBJ, Carter, Bill Clinton and Obama. They voted that way because whatever their bigotry or bias, ultimately they saw the Democrats as offering something to them, even if they may have grumbled about civil rights or whatever. And ultimately, it was good for civil rights because it allowed Democrats in their post-CRA mode to enter power and maintain the gains of the civil rights movement.

Why did not one of the trump supporters in the collection of quotes I made cite economic anxiety? How do we know that Hillary's image problem was started by a perception of economic conservatism? The poll didn't publish party favorability for Obama/trump voters, even though they did for dropoffs. Why would they ask the question to only one group? I get the feeling those numbers wouldn't make the point they wanted. Is there any evidence outside of this agenda poll?

Maybe it's because the WaPo article is using data collected specifically from Obama-Trump voters whereas the BBC is using anecdotes from Trump voters as a whole.

Stop comparing apples to oranges.

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

Add to that the fact that racists often have things like "this one's different" at times, and xenophobia isn't as simple as "voted for a black guy = can't be racist or ever possibly get swept up in xenophobia ever".

This is beside the point. If you're looking for voters who can't ever be racist or get swept up in xenophobia you're looking at a cool ... three percent of the electorate? Ultimately, you have to be amoral about this sort of thing - as long as they vote for you, it doesn't really matter what they think.

Plenty of undoubtedly racist people voted for LBJ, Carter, Bill Clinton and Obama. They voted that way because whatever their bigotry or bias, ultimately they saw the Democrats as offering something to them, even if they may have grumbled about civil rights or whatever. And ultimately, it was good for civil rights because it allowed Democrats in their post-CRA mode to enter power and maintain the gains of the civil rights movement.

Why did not one of the trump supporters in the collection of quotes I made cite economic anxiety? How do we know that Hillary's image problem was started by a perception of economic conservatism? The poll didn't publish party favorability for Obama/trump voters, even though they did for dropoffs. Why would they ask the question to only one group? I get the feeling those numbers wouldn't make the point they wanted. Is there any evidence outside of this agenda poll?

Maybe it's because the WaPo article is using data collected specifically from Obama-Trump voters whereas the BBC is using anecdotes from Trump voters as a whole.

Stop comparing apples to oranges.

Look at the data itself.

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I find the data in the poll questionable. Does the perception of income growth differ between Obama/trumpers(OT's from now on) and the general population? ditto for state of the economy. Do we know where the perception of democrats favoring the wealthy (still only 40% of the focus group) came from? How do we know it wasn't just because of them not being "anti-establishment" and not fitting trumps drain the swamp message? How do we know it wasn't just partisanship and a tendency to agree with bad things about the opposite side? Why would OT's be the only ones who had economic anxiety motivating their vote?

And what about Romney-Clinton voters. We have little data on them. Maybe we should get some polling (from a legitimate firm, not an agenda pusher) about them. We have no proof that there's any reason to not run straight into their arms. We know nothing about them. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Devout Centrist/ Missoulan style peeps are rather common among them. IE people who would ideologically agree more with democrats then republicans if you sat them down for a chat divorced from partisanship, but identify as republicans over tone and partisanship(my dad was like this for the first few years of his adulthood). Maybe saying liberal things in a #moderate tone would work better. We don't know. We have no idea how many of those kinds of people are out there.