Trump expected to sign EO targeting refugees on Wednesday

[Devout Centrist]

The majority of Americans have wanted this all along. 

Just like 1939!

[Devout Centrist]

Wall's gonna be included too

[Devout Centrist]

Excellent idea. Don't be like Europe. Stop Muslim immigration.

Just a shame it's on the basis of country instead of religion. Political correctness gone wild, sad!

I know. Judaism is a threat to our nation. Something must be done!

[Devout Centrist]

Once again, banning Muslim refugees here is terrible foreign policy. If there was an actual good reason to ban Muslim refugees from Syria I'd be all for it! I after all DO agree there is a war on Radical Islam and we need to win it.

BUT once again we need allies to win this war. We can't just go "OH BAD MOOSLIM, EVERYONE STAY AWAY!" This is a religion of 2.6 billion adherents. Billion, with a b. Now, what happens when you tell an entire faith they're bad people? They get radicalized. They join the people who share their faith or x characteristic. They become tribalistic. They get ticked off. They decide opposing you is now part of their identity and path to survival.

Unless you're willing to nuke Medina and Mecca, antagonizing an entire faith is stupid foreign policy.

So, we need Muslim allies to isolate and win the war on Radical Islam. So, when you turn away families who are fleeing the very radical Islamists we are trying to kill, defeat, whatever, you end up making them vastly less sympathetic to your cause and more willing to listen to crazy people who might be willing to strike a deal.

This is not constructive foreign policy. The few minor incidents that come from stupid idiots that exist in every population subgroup are vastly outweighed by the support of the vast majority of law abiding refugees who will do the following (1) communicate their gratitude to their Middle Eastern relatives (2) communicate that the Islamists are the real enemy, not the West 3) communicate that we need to all stand united.

This is why George W. Bush was careful to not isolate Muslims in the days after 9/11. So, in a nutshell, this is a retarded policy that will come back to bite us in the posterior.  

This is exactly the right message to send.

To wit, we also need to get a handle on Islamophobia. The term itself does have a valid application, but it frequently gets thrown out over any and all criticism of Islam.

Usually you can tel if someone's an Islamophobe if they're opposed to Islam and either:
1. A Fundamentalist in another faith
2. Consistently criticise Muslims immigrating to their countries over Saudi Arabia, Iran, and others. Typically these people don't care about women suffering under the patriarchal societies perpetuated by most of Islam and they jump right to worry about immigration.

Likewise, it's pretty obvious to know when someone's too soft on Islam:
1. Consistently deflecting blame for terror attacks
2. Support for "liberation movements" like Hamas. Also, dislike for Israel or referring to the State of Israel as an apartheid state.
3. Calling any and all criticism of Islam 'racism' or 'islamophobia'

[Devout Centrist]

+1 Devout Centrist's remarks.

Fundamentally, I think the Right has lost its mind over Islamophobia. Bush 43 was actually fairly good on this issue and struck a balance between killing terrorists while respecting Muslims. In the subsequent decade, Republicans have just jettisoned that balance in favor of an indiscriminate brush to declare war on Islam, as if it was Japan 1941 writ large.

Ironically, you could accuse Bush of perpetuating torture and starting a war on fake evidence, but not Islamophobia.

[Devout Centrist]

It is really funny how people from cities and neighborhoods where less than 1% are Muslims (Arizona? North Carolina? Mexico City?) are trying to school me about tolerance while I live in a big Western European city, specifically in an "inner city area" that is over 35% Muslim. I entertain good relations with Muslims in my neighborhood and respect many of their customs. However, as for Omegascarlet's question, in my life I have experienced discrimination both for being a Jew and for my sexuality, and the fact of the matter is that Muslim immigration hasn't exactly improved Jews' and LGBT people's position here in Europe. The security measures for my synagogue are insane and every other month there is another story of gay people being beaten up in Amsterdam, and the perpetrators' names seldom sound Dutch... wonder why Barcelona and Tel Aviv are now the gay capitals instead of Amsterdam? Sure, there absolutely are European antisemites and homophobes, but there would be a hell of a lot fewer problems if not for Muslim immigrants and their descendants. That's the truth and while Americans are often pretty naive on this issue, everybody here knows it. I do not support measures that are solely intended to make European Muslims' lives harder, which is not moral and will work counterproductively anyway, but let's please not repeat our mistake by letting even more of them in. It is in that light that I support Trump's executive order, and I don't care how unpopular that would make me among people on the other side of the world.

Europe's cultural integration leaves a lot to be desired. Between the left never willing to criticism Islam, overbearing welfare state, its anti-semitic past, and national identity that has a strong correlation to ethnicity, it's easy to see why Europe isn't great at absorbing immigrants.

That doesn't mean it's Europe's fault, but what it does mean is, the US can and should do better than Europe

[Devout Centrist]

No seriously. Listen to Daloy Politsey. It's a Yiddish song about killing the police and the Tsar. Perhaps not religious terrorism, but that's still terrorism.

(Edited to delete quote of sock. - TF)

[Devout Centrist]

No seriously. Listen to Daloy Politsey. It's a Yiddish song about killing the police and the Tsar. Perhaps not religious terrorism, but that's still terrorism.

In response to this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Jewish_pogroms_in_the_Russian_Empire

Muslims are not getting pogromed in the West, even if many rampage as if seeing other people drink or interact with dogs is the equivalent.

Syrian Civil War
Wars against ISIS
Afghan Civil War
Libyan Civil War

And that's not the point. Muslims, however, are dying and the US is in a prime position to help integrate people and yet we're choosing not to. We're historically better at this than Europe, and yet, we're not doing much.

(Edited to delete quote of sock. - TF)

[Devout Centrist]

Thank goodness the economic anxiety of good-natured white people in the Rust Belt can now be assuaged.

Yeah, now I don't risk losing my job to Abana when she grows up.

Our nation suffers as a result.