U.N. Passes Resolution Against Israel Settlements, U.S. Abstains

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Obama just killed the UN out of sheer spite at Israel. Amazing.

This piece of paper will mean nothing come January 20th. The only question is, how far will his spite take him, and will it ring bells that could result in setting the ME on fire?

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A sad day in American history. Obama has proved that at this point, all he cares about is his legacy, whether or not it is good for America or consistent with our values.

Supporting illegal Israeli settlements are not consistent with American values.

Illegal settlements as a whole are pretty consistent with American values.

But that historical irony aside, the settlements weren't illegal until today, and Israel isn't bound to obey anti-semitic laws that declare Jewish presence in an area illegal.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

A sad day in American history. Obama has proved that at this point, all he cares about is his legacy, whether or not it is good for America or consistent with our values.

Supporting illegal Israeli settlements are not consistent with American values.

Illegal settlements as a whole are pretty consistent with American values.

But that historical irony aside, the settlements weren't illegal until today, and Israel isn't bound to obey anti-semitic laws that declare Jewish presence in an area illegal.

Israeli presence, not Jewish presence. They have full Israeli rights, while non-Jews don't. Stop using anti-Semitism to describe condemnation towards settlements btw. It hurts the fight against real anti-Semitism.

Palestinian government officials have made clear that not a single Jew will be allowed to remain in areas they claim as theirs. In this resolution, that includes the Western Wall.

Ruthless goyim have tried to force us out of our holiest sites before. There's a holiday coming up that's all about it. It didn't end well for them. It won't end well for them this time either.

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Settlements are an invasion of a foreign country by Israel. Should France start building towns in Belgium?

They should be evacuated and bombed.

They're not a foreign country. There has never been an independent country of Palestine. Never. They are former Jordanian and Egyptian territory taken in defensive wars, and before 1948 they were holdings of various empires.

Whether they should be part of a future Palestine, yeah, most likely. That's something that will be settled in final negotiations, not by UN fiat. Until such a time, Israel should and will hold on to them as one of the few bargaining chips they have at the table.

Your last point is laughable. Who would do the bombing? What usually happens when world powers get bombed?

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Settlements are an invasion of a foreign country by Israel. Should France start building towns in Belgium?

They should be evacuated and bombed.

They're not a foreign country. There has never been an independent country of Palestine. Never. They are former Jordanian and Egyptian territory taken in defensive wars, and before 1948 they were holdings of various empires.

Whether they should be part of a future Palestine, yeah, most likely. That's something that will be settled in final negotiations, not by UN fiat. Until such a time, Israel should and will hold on to them as one of the few bargaining chips they have at the table.

Your last point is laughable. Who would do the bombing? What usually happens when world powers get bombed?

There is a Palestinian state, it's called Jordan

That's a point that really should be made more often, but it likely won't mean anything in practice until the Hashemites are removed from power. Once the Palestinian majority takes control there, the likely scenario is the ceding of most majority-Palestinian areas to Jordan/Palestine, while the majority-Jewish areas and certain sacred sites like East Jerusalem are annexed by Israel and the Palestinians there given the chance to gain Israeli citizenship.

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They should be evacuated and bombed.

Ask weed man to do it. But only if you like a mushroom cloud in your backyard.

You're aware any threat to throw a nuclear bomb on the West will probably cause the extinction of the Jewish people? West would stop protecting you against Arabs and there would be en explosion in anti-semitic crimes.

We all know than, internatonally, the best for Israel would be a sign a peace deal and then loudly complain about every violation by Palestinians until it fell down. Created a ton of goodwill towards them in the 90's. Confronting the West is going to deal you nowhere.

I mean, you just suggested the West bomb a nuclear power. What did you expect? Calm and no retaliation?

Israel certainly isn't looking to fire nukes, but let's be perfectly clear - if "The West" is absolutely determined that Israel burn, this time we all burn together.

So maybe don't try to escalate low-boil regional conflicts into potential apocalypses?

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Good, hopefully we can have a peace solution, based upon 1968 borders, and the guarantee of civic and political equality in both Israel and Palestine under UN supervision.

Shame to see so many people supporting a racist ideology against Palestinian and Arab people, so deplorable. One day the world will see the Israel settlement for what is, colonialism, and apartheid against people of a different race.

So many racists in this thread.

Are you Australian Aborigine?

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Currently, the Joint Arab List has 13 seats in the Knesset. When seeing these polls, the Israeli right wing panicked, Benjamin Netanyahu filmed a disgusting, cheap political trick stinking of racism ('The Arabs are flocking to the ballots. The liberal organizations are bringing them with buses'). If your feverish, religious dream of annexing everything comes true, how many more do you think we'll get? 20? 40? Maybe 61, and an Arabic Prime Minister to boot? Yeah.

Hold up. I'm not proposing the annexation of Judea and Samaria right now. We should just keep building there, and focus on draining the swamp and ending the power of the courts instead. And even in the event that we annex it they should obviously not get voting rights on Israeli affairs. That should make people like you much more comfortable

Actually, that will make me very uncomfortable. I'd hate to see my country cease to be a democracy.
Besides, what do you mean by draining the swamp? The Likud has been in power for years. The swamp is the Likud, the Likud is the swamp.

Yeah, that's not feasible at all. That would actually be an apartheid state.

Really, nothing is going to get resolved here until the Hashemite dictatorship in Jordan falls, and then the whole former British Mandate can discuss the issues (assuming the new government in Jordan/Palestine doesn't do anything stupid immediately).

The UN and the US attempting to preemptively force an Israeli surrender will only cause the right-wing there to knuckle down.

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I don't have any problem with the US acting and voting in their own interests, just as every single other nation does.  Israel will always be a great ally, that doesn't mean unflinching acceptance of every circumstance.  It's a nonbinding resolution from the feckless UN anyway.  Who care.

Except that this vote was directly against the US' interests and the UN's interests. It was a pure spite vote cast by a lame duck attempting to screw over his enemies before he goes.

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So the question now becomes, how should Israel respond to this latest international assault.

 - Recalling the ambassadors from New Zealand and Senegal is a good start. There should also be some dialing back of diplomatic relations with the Obama administration. They've proven themselves to not have Israel's back, and as such there's no need to waste any more time on them while they're lingering. Should they choose to escalate, I'm sure Israel has some strategies in their back pocket.

 - Any projects put on hold per the Obama administration's request should be immediately resumed, until such a time as negotiations are resumed and a stop is called for. If you abandon your half of the quid pro quo, you're owed absolutely nothing. I would also say it's time to consider letting Jews pray on the Temple Mount again. That was done as a peacekeeping measure, and the response was the UN trying to seize control of the Western Wall. No more accommodation when it comes to the exterminationists' desire to erase us from our own history.

 - Potentially the biggest threat here is the long arm of "international law" looking to ensnare Israelis in its tentacles. This has been an ongoing threat for soldiers, but this resolution now raises the specter that a Jewish civilian who lives in the Jewish quarter of Old Jerusalem could face charges at Europe's hands. Israel needs to make clear that any capture of an Israeli citizen to face charges at the Hague will be considered not an arrest but a state-sponsored kidnapping and treated as such.

While not actually starting any conflicts that can't be dialed back, these three measures would send a very strong measure that Israel's existence, history, and right to defend itself is no longer up for debate.

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Lmao @ the lefties here devaluing the A-word more and more by the minute. It's almost as worthless as "racist" nowadays. No one cares anymore. Good job, thank you!

I don't have any problem with the US acting and voting in their own interests, just as every single other nation does.

No smart person ever expects the U.S. (or any country, for that matter) to act altruistically. The point is that Obama's foreign policy of screwing over the U.S.' allies and aiding its enemies is not really in the country's interest at all.

The US is often the only major country in the world that stands up for Israel in the UN General Assembly. Don't even try to act like we haven't supported them. Even in this rare instance, this was an abstention.

Explain how angering an ally, destabilizing the peace process further, and putting defunding the UN on the table a month before the change of Presidents helped anyone.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

So, I have a question, and I don't want it to be a loaded question, even though it kind of is, so feel free to answer a more constructive question if you want:

What does Israel gain from building these settlements? Even if they have every legal right to do so, just as the "Ground Zero Mosque" people did, what is the motivation which makes those building the settlements say "yes, we get that it's unpopular with the local Palestinians and Muslims, and yes, it provokes the ire of many of our neighbors, but the reason we need to build these settlements here and now is __________"?

Well, a big part of this is that many of these are historically Jewish cities home to sacred sites.

And keep in mind that this despicable ruling includes all of Eastern Jerusalem in the "occupied territory". That's literally the heart of biblical Israel, including our holiest site. The Jewish areas of Jerusalem are not and will never be up for negotiation. So asserting their ongoing rights to those areas is a legitimate policy position.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Lmao @ the lefties here devaluing the A-word more and more by the minute. It's almost as worthless as "racist" nowadays. No one cares anymore. Good job, thank you!

I don't have any problem with the US acting and voting in their own interests, just as every single other nation does.

No smart person ever expects the U.S. (or any country, for that matter) to act altruistically. The point is that Obama's foreign policy of screwing over the U.S.' allies and aiding its enemies is not really in the country's interest at all.

The US is often the only major country in the world that stands up for Israel in the UN General Assembly. Don't even try to act like we haven't supported them. Even in this rare instance, this was an abstention.

Explain how angering an ally, destabilizing the peace process further, and putting defunding the UN on the table a month before the change of Presidents helped anyone.

It's hard to destabilize a process that does not exist.

And now it never will again. The next time Hamas or the PA start up with provocation (like, you know, rocket fire on Hanukkah), Israel has ever reason to react with equal belligerence.

Obama just set the Middle East on fire over a grudge. Have fun with that.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

So apparently Obama and Hollande are scheming to impose a second resolution, this one ordering Israel to abide by third-party peace plans, before the term is over.

I'm almost wondering if Obama's goal here is to push things so far that the US-Israeli relationship cannot be repaired even under a new President. It's the only thing that makes sense at this point, besides him simply being a stupid, vengeful person who doesn't understand foreign relations.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Then, you'll have the blood of European Jews on your hands.

You're very aware any move like the ones you suggest will cause yet another anti-semitic flare in Europe, including attacks.

Note that's totally Bibi plan, making to rest of the world so dangerous for the Jewish people than they are forced to move in Israel.

That strikes me as a reason for Europe to take serious measures to protect their Jewish population and show they care about things like that, rather than a reason for Israel to back down after being pushed into a corner.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

How does a strong/weak Israel strengthen or weaken my Jewish friend who has full tattoo sleeves and is posting about Christmas gifts on Facebook this morning? Don't see how Israel impacts her livelihood in Columbia Heights, MN.

See, when some pissant sociopath on the right or left gains power and decides that she needs to die because of what her genetic code says, the fact that there's a country of pissed-off Jews with nuclear weapons may just make said pissant sociopath think twice.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

How does a strong/weak Israel strengthen or weaken my Jewish friend who has full tattoo sleeves and is posting about Christmas gifts on Facebook this morning? Don't see how Israel impacts her livelihood in Columbia Heights, MN.

See, when some pissant sociopath on the right or left gains power and decides that she needs to die because of what her genetic code says, the fact that there's a country of pissed-off Jews with nuclear weapons may just make said pissant sociopath think twice.

And that's an actual possibility in the US?

According to a whole lot of people this year, absolutely. And it certainly was in 1996.

I'm skeptical. However, I'm not only concerned about the US. I very much like the same deterrent existing for Europe.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

How does a strong/weak Israel strengthen or weaken my Jewish friend who has full tattoo sleeves and is posting about Christmas gifts on Facebook this morning? Don't see how Israel impacts her livelihood in Columbia Heights, MN.

See, when some pissant sociopath on the right or left gains power and decides that she needs to die because of what her genetic code says, the fact that there's a country of pissed-off Jews with nuclear weapons may just make said pissant sociopath think twice.

And that's an actual possibility in the US?

According to a whole lot of people this year, absolutely. And it certainly was in 1996.

I'm skeptical. However, I'm not only concerned about the US. I very much like the same deterrent existing for Europe.

Would be quite hard to use in Europe, I doubt the non-fascist neighbours would like having to deal with nuclear fallout on their territories,

Then they should probably take care of their genocidal Jew-hating neighbor before Israel has to.

That's the thing - Israel's nuclear weapons may not be an actual practical option in many situations, but what they are is a massive game-changer in terms of balance of power. The world is now forced to care what happens to the Jews, because Israel compels them to by the presence of that threat.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

How does a strong/weak Israel strengthen or weaken my Jewish friend who has full tattoo sleeves and is posting about Christmas gifts on Facebook this morning? Don't see how Israel impacts her livelihood in Columbia Heights, MN.

See, when some pissant sociopath on the right or left gains power and decides that she needs to die because of what her genetic code says, the fact that there's a country of pissed-off Jews with nuclear weapons may just make said pissant sociopath think twice.

And that's an actual possibility in the US?

According to a whole lot of people this year, absolutely. And it certainly was in 1996.

I'm skeptical. However, I'm not only concerned about the US. I very much like the same deterrent existing for Europe.

Would be quite hard to use in Europe, I doubt the non-fascist neighbours would like having to deal with nuclear fallout on their territories,

Then they should probably take care of their genocidal Jew-hating neighbor before Israel has to.

That's the thing - Israel's nuclear weapons may not be an actual practical option in many situations, but what they are is a massive game-changer in terms of balance of power. The world is now forced to care what happens to the Jews, because Israel compels them to by the presence of that threat.

So, if Pakistan decided to use their nukes to make sure Muslims are treated well around the world, would you oppose it?

That's an absurd false equivalency. There's never been an active and partially successful attempt to erase every last Muslim from the face of the planet.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

How does a strong/weak Israel strengthen or weaken my Jewish friend who has full tattoo sleeves and is posting about Christmas gifts on Facebook this morning? Don't see how Israel impacts her livelihood in Columbia Heights, MN.

See, when some pissant sociopath on the right or left gains power and decides that she needs to die because of what her genetic code says, the fact that there's a country of pissed-off Jews with nuclear weapons may just make said pissant sociopath think twice.

And that's an actual possibility in the US?

According to a whole lot of people this year, absolutely. And it certainly was in 1996.

I'm skeptical. However, I'm not only concerned about the US. I very much like the same deterrent existing for Europe.

Would be quite hard to use in Europe, I doubt the non-fascist neighbours would like having to deal with nuclear fallout on their territories,

Then they should probably take care of their genocidal Jew-hating neighbor before Israel has to.

That's the thing - Israel's nuclear weapons may not be an actual practical option in many situations, but what they are is a massive game-changer in terms of balance of power. The world is now forced to care what happens to the Jews, because Israel compels them to by the presence of that threat.

So, if Pakistan decided to use their nukes to make sure Muslims are treated well around the world, would you oppose it?

That's an absurd false equivalency. There's never been an active and partially successful attempt to erase every last Muslim from the face of the planet.

It's far more likely that the American government will try to exterminate the domestic Muslim population than go after the American Jewish community.

Neither one is remotely likely to happen.

Europe, though? Can't say the same about either.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

It's funny how people are expressing contempt for the UN as if it were responsible for this resolution as some sort of autonomous entity, rather than all the countries in the world that voted for it. But that's propaganda for you.

Oh, believe you me, I despise both the farcical entity, and every. single. country. that helped it along while still washing the blood of Jews through history off their own filthy hands.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

The Israeli government doesn't seem to understand that politics is a pendulum. The Democrats will regain power (hell, they won more votes this year, imagine if Trump is hated how they'll do). Netanyahu openly allying Trump and the GOP is good for the short term, but horrific for Israel in the long term. They need the Democrats more. GOP support is a given, but they continually spit in the faces of Democrats who already feel alienated.

You may have missed it, but 90% of Democrats not leaving office in three weeks (assuming an orderly transition of power) are condemning the Obama administration.

This isn't Israel vs. America - at least not yet. It's America and Israel vs. Obama and the UN.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

The Israeli government doesn't seem to understand that politics is a pendulum. The Democrats will regain power (hell, they won more votes this year, imagine if Trump is hated how they'll do). Netanyahu openly allying Trump and the GOP is good for the short term, but horrific for Israel in the long term. They need the Democrats more. GOP support is a given, but they continually spit in the faces of Democrats who already feel alienated.

You may have missed it, but 90% of Democrats not leaving office in three weeks (assuming an orderly transition of power) are condemning the Obama administration.

This isn't Israel vs. America - at least not yet. It's America and Israel vs. Obama and the UN.

You might not realize what you're implying here, but you just said that Obama is a traitor to the United States because he didn't support Israel's settlements. You also implied the people of the United States now oppose Obama and every single nation in the world other than Israel.

Neither of those statements are remotely true.

That's not remotely what I said.

What I said was that Obama sided with the UN against Israel and the wishes of the vast majority of the American public.

That is objectively true.

Also, the resolution wasn't about settlements.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

The Israeli government doesn't seem to understand that politics is a pendulum. The Democrats will regain power (hell, they won more votes this year, imagine if Trump is hated how they'll do). Netanyahu openly allying Trump and the GOP is good for the short term, but horrific for Israel in the long term. They need the Democrats more. GOP support is a given, but they continually spit in the faces of Democrats who already feel alienated.

You may have missed it, but 90% of Democrats not leaving office in three weeks (assuming an orderly transition of power) are condemning the Obama administration.

This isn't Israel vs. America - at least not yet. It's America and Israel vs. Obama and the UN.

You might not realize what you're implying here, but you just said that Obama is a traitor to the United States because he didn't support Israel's settlements. You also implied the people of the United States now oppose Obama and every single nation in the world other than Israel.

Neither of those statements are remotely true.

That's not remotely what I said.

What I said was that Obama sided with the UN against Israel and the wishes of the vast majority of the American public.

That is objectively true.

Also, the resolution wasn't about settlements.

I doubt the vast majority of the American public is even aware that anything happened or has a view on UN resolutions relating to Israel generally.

And what was the resolution about if it wasn't about settlements??

Jerusalem, the capital of Israel.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

And the Palestinian Arabs are rightful residents of the area as well. There's no point in arguing with that. That's why roughly 2/3rds of Mandatory Palestine was carved out for them when it was partitioned, with the remaining third remaining in British hands until it was eventually ceded to the Jewish reclamation movement.