JOE MANCHIN 2020!

[Bidenworth2020]

He is our best bet, tbh. If we ain't getting Bernie, then he is second best. His losses among Bernie or bust peeps will be massively overshadowed by his amazing performance among blue collar workers and I could easily see him getting 350+EV's.


P.S-Please dont post in this thread, ProgressiveCanadian.

[GoTfan]

Yeah sure, if you want a left-wing third party challenge that sucks away the Democratic base.

[McGovernForPrez]

Please stop. These threads are losing their humor.

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

HECK YEAH!!! Total 110% Support! But he would never win the nomination.

[Lord Admirale]

YEAH!

[Green Line]

No.

[NewYorkExpress]

He's not going to win re-election, so no.

[Lord Admirale]

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

Yuck. No. Never! If you do, I and 15% of the country will vote Bloomberg, and Trump will be reelected.

Chill the heck down dude, just chill. As much as I would like to see it happened, he will not run, and even if he does, he will not even come close in the primaries.

[tosk]

HECK YEAH!!! Total 110% Support! But he would never win the nomination.

[Fuzzy Bear]

For Joe Manchin to be the Democratic nominee, the Democratic Party would have to come to terms with the idea that the reason they lost the Presidential election of 2016 was because the party veered too far to the left and was not attractive enough to folks in the center, and that it will never be in the majority unless it manages to take in moderates in its ranks and keep them.  Part of that process would involve nominating a more moderate Democrat for President, with the logic that 3/4 of a Democrat is better than no Democrat at all.

The above-statement may or may not be true.  America has certainly moved left on social issues, and it has moved left on economics over the years, even as more Republicans are being elected, to the point of where the Democrats are CLEARLY the minority party in America.  The Democrats don't seem to get that they are a minority party; Independents are clearly the largest group, and these Independents clearly have more in their number that lean R than those that Lean D.  Are the Democrats ready to admit that their failures are due to identity politics that they KNEW would alienate the WWC voters they have needed, but are losing rapidly.  So did they lose simply because they rammed down the throats of the electorate a candidate (Hillary Clinton) who was so personally unlikable that she would not be able to win even with great advantages?

I tend to believe a combination of these sentiments is true.  Hillary embraced the far, far left of SJWs, LGBT activists, Identity Politics practitioners, radical feminists, and ran a campaign that was, in large measure, a defense of political correctness in an era where folks were in full rebellion against it, working overtime to alienate those critical voters they needed to win.  The Democrats didn't need to call for repeal of SSM; the SCOTUS gave them a gift by enacting SSM without anyone having to cast a tough vote in a legislature on the issue.  But did they have to push their views on public bathrooms?  Did they have to agree with SJWs that police are the largest threat to black lives, as opposed to the criminals that perpetrate black-on-black violent crime in large numbers? 

Under such conditions, a rational Democratic Party might turn to someone like Manchin.  His biggest downfall was his silence on Obama in 2012, but no one really doubts Manchin voted for Obama in the privacy of the voting booth, and that he was in the midst of a massive revolt of WV Democrats.  I'm not sure the Democrats have that kind of realism, however.  They want what they can't have.  This is a party who, having lost 49 states in 1972 with McGovern, couldn't support a moderate Democrat like Carter because he was too conservative and they missed out on Camelot.  I have little doubt that a united Democratic Party that stood by its President in 1980 would have re-elected Carter and wouldn't have lost the Senate, but that didn't happen.  I don't have much more faith that the Democratic Party of today possesses the introspection it needs to actually make the changes needed for victory.

[P. Clodius Pulcher did nothing wrong]

If we ain't getting Bernie, then he is second best

"If we ain't getting our greatest dream, then our worst nightmare is second best"

[Lord Admirale]

If we ain't getting Bernie, then he is second best

"If we ain't getting our greatest dream, then our worst nightmare is second best"

[JustinTimeCuber]

how about no

[Coraxion]

He is our best bet, tbh. If we ain't getting Bernie, then he is second best. His losses among Bernie or bust peeps will be massively overshadowed by his amazing performance among blue collar workers and I could easily see him getting 350+EV's.


P.S-Please dont post in this thread, ProgressiveCanadian.

Bernie bros actually would vote for him. He's a white guy from a rural state.

[Fuzzy Bear]

He is our best bet, tbh. If we ain't getting Bernie, then he is second best. His losses among Bernie or bust peeps will be massively overshadowed by his amazing performance among blue collar workers and I could easily see him getting 350+EV's.


P.S-Please dont post in this thread, ProgressiveCanadian.

Bernie bros actually would vote for him. He's a white guy from a rural state.

I don't know if Manchin is the Dems best bet, but he's a serious candidate.

And, yes, white male voters ought to see a Democratic Party not look at them as if they're the root of all evil in America. 

[Coraxion]

He is our best bet, tbh. If we ain't getting Bernie, then he is second best. His losses among Bernie or bust peeps will be massively overshadowed by his amazing performance among blue collar workers and I could easily see him getting 350+EV's.


P.S-Please dont post in this thread, ProgressiveCanadian.

Bernie bros actually would vote for him. He's a white guy from a rural state.

I don't know if Manchin is the Dems best bet, but he's a serious candidate.

And, yes, white male voters ought to see a Democratic Party not look at them as if they're the root of all evil in America. 

That's not what we think. However, it is what they think because of their massive victim complex.

[Fuzzy Bear]

He is our best bet, tbh. If we ain't getting Bernie, then he is second best. His losses among Bernie or bust peeps will be massively overshadowed by his amazing performance among blue collar workers and I could easily see him getting 350+EV's.


P.S-Please dont post in this thread, ProgressiveCanadian.

Bernie bros actually would vote for him. He's a white guy from a rural state.

I don't know if Manchin is the Dems best bet, but he's a serious candidate.

And, yes, white male voters ought to see a Democratic Party not look at them as if they're the root of all evil in America. 

That's not what we think. However, it is what they think because of their massive victim complex.

I don't know who the "we" is you mention.  I only know the tone and rhetoric of the identity politics that has seemingly taken the Democratic Party by storm.  

I would like to know who this "we" is that you refer to, and what the attitude toward America that "we" holds and projects.  I've been on Atlas long enough to know that not everyone who posts here actually loves America and wishes it well.  

[100% pro-life no matter what]

If he picked someone like JBE and won, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the long run because it could give us two pro-life parties.

[Fuzzy Bear]

He is our best bet, tbh. If we ain't getting Bernie, then he is second best. His losses among Bernie or bust peeps will be massively overshadowed by his amazing performance among blue collar workers and I could easily see him getting 350+EV's.


P.S-Please dont post in this thread, ProgressiveCanadian.

Bernie bros actually would vote for him. He's a white guy from a rural state.

I don't know if Manchin is the Dems best bet, but he's a serious candidate.

And, yes, white male voters ought to see a Democratic Party not look at them as if they're the root of all evil in America. 

That's not what we think. However, it is what they think because of their massive victim complex.

I don't know who the "we" is you mention.  I only know the tone and rhetoric of the identity politics that has seemingly taken the Democratic Party by storm.  

I would like to know who this "we" is that you refer to, and what the attitude toward America that "we" holds and projects.  I've been on Atlas long enough to know that not everyone who posts here actually loves America and wishes it well.  

Identity politics is an America tradition. The notion that only Democrats participate in it is ludicrous. There's a reason a guy like Ben Sasse has pictures of him taken in cornfields and on a farm

Republicans, however, have always been the party that did more to speak to Americans as Americans and not as port of special groups.  Democrats have always been the party of group appeals.  This is nothing new; it's a longstanding pattern.

What we have now, however, is a Democratic Party taking identity politics to a new level, in its attempts to cobble together a majority-minority coalition to sweep to victory.  This can only be done by appeals to group special interests, but these group special interests are often diametrically opposed to the interests of America as a whole.

There are appeals to Hispanics to allow for more immigration.  But is more immigration in the interest of the whole of America, of which Hispanics here are already a part?  There are appeals to blacks to enviscerate police over police brutality, but is that consistent with the well being of Americans who face varying degrees of violent crime and need police with the will to enforce laws and a citizenry that obeys the lawful directives of law enforcement officers on duty.  Loyalty to ethnic group or political alliance is encouraged by today's Democratic Party over loyalty to country.  A nation awash in identity politics is a nation whose leaders obtain power by accumulating more political debts than they can pay.

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

I'd prefer to keep that Senate seat, thanks.


<also literally everything else about this idea>

[GGover]

No

[ProgressiveCanadian]

Delusional.

[Coraxion]

He is our best bet, tbh. If we ain't getting Bernie, then he is second best. His losses among Bernie or bust peeps will be massively overshadowed by his amazing performance among blue collar workers and I could easily see him getting 350+EV's.


P.S-Please dont post in this thread, ProgressiveCanadian.

Bernie bros actually would vote for him. He's a white guy from a rural state.

I don't know if Manchin is the Dems best bet, but he's a serious candidate.

And, yes, white male voters ought to see a Democratic Party not look at them as if they're the root of all evil in America. 

That's not what we think. However, it is what they think because of their massive victim complex.

I don't know who the "we" is you mention.  I only know the tone and rhetoric of the identity politics that has seemingly taken the Democratic Party by storm.  

I would like to know who this "we" is that you refer to, and what the attitude toward America that "we" holds and projects.  I've been on Atlas long enough to know that not everyone who posts here actually loves America and wishes it well.  

Identity politics is an America tradition. The notion that only Democrats participate in it is ludicrous. There's a reason a guy like Ben Sasse has pictures of him taken in cornfields and on a farm

Republicans, however, have always been the party that did more to speak to Americans as Americans and not as port of special groups.  Democrats have always been the party of group appeals.  This is nothing new; it's a longstanding pattern.

What we have now, however, is a Democratic Party taking identity politics to a new level, in its attempts to cobble together a majority-minority coalition to sweep to victory.  This can only be done by appeals to group special interests, but these group special interests are often diametrically opposed to the interests of America as a whole.

There are appeals to Hispanics to allow for more immigration.  But is more immigration in the interest of the whole of America, of which Hispanics here are already a part?  There are appeals to blacks to enviscerate police over police brutality, but is that consistent with the well being of Americans who face varying degrees of violent crime and need police with the will to enforce laws and a citizenry that obeys the lawful directives of law enforcement officers on duty.  Loyalty to ethnic group or political alliance is encouraged by today's Democratic Party over loyalty to country.  A nation awash in identity politics is a nation whose leaders obtain power by accumulating more political debts than they can pay.

"I'm not a racist, but minorities are not American."

[Fuzzy Bear]

He is our best bet, tbh. If we ain't getting Bernie, then he is second best. His losses among Bernie or bust peeps will be massively overshadowed by his amazing performance among blue collar workers and I could easily see him getting 350+EV's.


P.S-Please dont post in this thread, ProgressiveCanadian.

Bernie bros actually would vote for him. He's a white guy from a rural state.

I don't know if Manchin is the Dems best bet, but he's a serious candidate.

And, yes, white male voters ought to see a Democratic Party not look at them as if they're the root of all evil in America.  

That's not what we think. However, it is what they think because of their massive victim complex.

I don't know who the "we" is you mention.  I only know the tone and rhetoric of the identity politics that has seemingly taken the Democratic Party by storm.  

I would like to know who this "we" is that you refer to, and what the attitude toward America that "we" holds and projects.  I've been on Atlas long enough to know that not everyone who posts here actually loves America and wishes it well.  

Identity politics is an America tradition. The notion that only Democrats participate in it is ludicrous. There's a reason a guy like Ben Sasse has pictures of him taken in cornfields and on a farm

Republicans, however, have always been the party that did more to speak to Americans as Americans and not as port of special groups.  Democrats have always been the party of group appeals.  This is nothing new; it's a longstanding pattern.

What we have now, however, is a Democratic Party taking identity politics to a new level, in its attempts to cobble together a majority-minority coalition to sweep to victory.  This can only be done by appeals to group special interests, but these group special interests are often diametrically opposed to the interests of America as a whole.

There are appeals to Hispanics to allow for more immigration.  But is more immigration in the interest of the whole of America, of which Hispanics here are already a part?  There are appeals to blacks to enviscerate police over police brutality, but is that consistent with the well being of Americans who face varying degrees of violent crime and need police with the will to enforce laws and a citizenry that obeys the lawful directives of law enforcement officers on duty.  Loyalty to ethnic group or political alliance is encouraged by today's Democratic Party over loyalty to country.  A nation awash in identity politics is a nation whose leaders obtain power by accumulating more political debts than they can pay.

"I'm not a racist, but minorities are not American."

That's an interpretation of what you project on others.  Not a fact.  But it does beg a question; the question of "What is an 'American'?".

Being an American, in my book, has nothing to do with race, color or national origin  It has very much to do with loyalty.  Is your loyalty to the United States of America?  Do you advocate policies that are in the interests of the United States, even if they run counter to the interests of the country of your origin/heritage?  Do you identify yourself as an American and mean it?  Will you make common cause with folks who are not of your ethnic heritage in opposition to folks who are of your ethnic heritage if doing so is clearly in the interest of America as a whole?

Being an American, in my book, means being committed to certain things culturally.  It means being committed to speaking English, and to respecting English as the primary language of America.  It means being committed to the rule of law, and not the rule of ethnic or tribal customs and loyalties.  (That, by the way, includes our immigration laws.) It means recognizing the legitimacy of elected officials whom you do not agree with and who are not of your race/ethnicity, and it means recognizing them even if they defeat candidates of your choice  (And, yes, a degree of the response to Obama by some white folks was, decidedly, un-American.)  It means forsaking institutions that run counter to secular liberal democracy and the rule of law; things such as Sharia Law, honor killings, and the right of individuals to make decisions regarding their own lives.  

Being an American, in my book, means being of Mexican descent and refuting President Felipe Calderon's statement of "Wherever a Mexican is, there is Mexico." and recognize the Mexican War as a done deal.  It means being Arab and renouncing Sharia Law and the idea of a Caliphate.  It means being Israeli and renouncing the deeds of Jonathan Pollard.  It means being supportive of America in its wars, and not of its enemies.  And, yes, it means recognizing we are ONE nation, and there is no "Southern"Nation (for all the neo-Congederate readers.  But it also means that white folks have a legitimate right to weigh in on issues pertaining to the actions of non-white folks; the idea that white folks have no right to weigh in on problems affecting predominatly minority folks and neighborhoods is no more American than minority folks have to weigh in on problems that appear to predominantly affect white folks and neighborhoods.  America is too interconnected for that, is it not?

America is a unique nation; it's not "blood and soil", but "e pluribus unum".  Diverse people have become part of a united nation because they were willing to forsake old authorities for the authority of America and the freedoms that come with it.  I understand that lots of folks (including folks whose families have been in this country for centuries) feel "alienated".  To that, I would ask if some of that "alienation" is self-inflicted?  Do people talk themselves into being more victimized than they actually have been?  America, its republican form of government with democratic features, its guaranteed and enumerated freedoms, didn't just happen, and doesn't just happen.  To keep it happening, it requires some people to do some degree of changing their mind, and develop a willingness to be part of a greater whole.  Some folks never get that.