Obama to hold mass rally for acceptance speech at Mile High Stadium

[J. J.]

Whoever started this thread and whoever is continuing the meaning of this thread needs to talk about this with their therapist. Seriously. I am not trying to "censor" you, I just think that this is not what rational adults talk about.

Yeah, ration adults sit around and shout meaningless slogans at the top of their lungs to be just like everyone else around them, while they manage to forget that this is supposed to be an election for President of the United States, not the pep club.

Yup. Bitter.

Yeah... I am bitter, because I hate black people, and young people, and popular people.  That's what this is all about.  It has nothing to do with anything other than that... obviously. 

There's nothing wrong with being upset that Obama is winning, or with opposing him.....now you know how we felt in 2004.

But comparing him to a Nazi is a tad over the top Chris; you must admit.

I think that to the extent that the Nazis regarded themselves as elite, it is an apt comparison.

What did Clinton and G. W. Bush have in common in their first presidential campaigns?  The both could affect the "Aw shucks, I'm a country boy," routine.  Obama hasn't managed that.  He comes off as elitist.

Now, in reality G. W. Bush certainly was about as elitist as you can get without being heir to a peerage, but he didn't look it.

[J. J.]

So Obama=elite + Nazi's=elite = Obama=nazi. This logic makes my head spin.

Obama = looks like he considers himself better than everyone else, i.e thinks he's elite.  Nazis = looks like they considered themselves better than everyone else, i.e thinks they were elite.  It is not a good image to project.

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Frankly, looking at the primary results, he has had a growing problem connecting with the American people.

The image of being in a stadium, even if perfectly executed, in front of people seemingly mindlessly chanting his name, is not going to evoke a non elitist image.

[J. J.]

Most of U.S citizens think they're better then other people (i.e. Middle East habitants)
Doesn't mean you should compare them to Nazi's.
Using that logic: Nazi's are white, Oh my, we must be neo-nazi's!

LOL!  You obviously don't have close interactions with Black people.  If there was a group, even liberal, and not in the least racist, that was all White, a Black person would be worried about being lynched (as a friend of mine reminded me that night).

If there was a party that was largely white (but not racist), and the majority population was not white, you'd here calls of them being Nazis.

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If you are referring to the most recent polls, he's still not a known quality.

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It's not a Nuremberg style stadium and Hillary and McCain come off as not being elitist; Obama does.  (Note that I did not say, "is.")

Look at Phila's Mayor Nutter.  A successful stock broker, Ivy League eduction, about 20 years in politics and 15 on city council.  Elite by most standards and arguably a policy wonk.  He was trailing badly in the polls.  What does he start doing? 

Running commercials showing his daughter, showing him taking her to school.  Suddenly he comes across as a regular guy, the boy next door type, a real normal guy.  White people start voting for him and get annoyed when someone calls him "not Black enough."  He wins the nomination and his wife introduces him as "My Boo, my road dawg," in a moment we all found charming and real.  He get's called, by dyed in the wool Republicans (even on this site), as "the real deal."

With Obama we get Nuremberg; with Nutter we got nice.

[J. J.]

No, I only live 15 minutes away from a city that is 43% African American.

You state that Obama is a unknown quantity then you state that people view him as elitist. All I'm saying is that most Americans seem to disagree with you that Obama comes off as an elitist. That may be your perception of him, but It definitely isn't with a lot of Americans.

15 minutes is a light year, in your case (and frankly the bulk of white people that I know).

The impression that os being created is that of an elitist; it is not a good move in American politics.

[J. J.]

No, I only live 15 minutes away from a city that is 43% African American.

You state that Obama is a unknown quantity then you state that people view him as elitist. All I'm saying is that most Americans seem to disagree with you that Obama comes off as an elitist. That may be your perception of him, but It definitely isn't with a lot of Americans.

15 minutes is a light year, in your case (and frankly the bulk of white people that I know).

The impression that os being created is that of an elitist; it is not a good move in American politics.

Except the fact that I used to work in a 90% black neighborhood and my next door neighbor is black. I get plenty of interaction with the African American Community, thank you very much.

I still don't get how giving a big speech elitist but whatever.

Like I said, a light year.  I had a friend raise it just last night after a visit to Myersdale, PA.  She was expecting to be lynched at the local fast food place.

Giving a big speech isn't.  Doing it in a stadium looks like it is elitist.  It plays to chanting crowd of which most people in the US are not part.  It's spectacle, Nurembergesque, but not reaching to the average voter.

Obama (and McCain) has to sit down at the kitchen table with the voter.

[J. J.]

No, I only live 15 minutes away from a city that is 43% African American.

You state that Obama is a unknown quantity then you state that people view him as elitist. All I'm saying is that most Americans seem to disagree with you that Obama comes off as an elitist. That may be your perception of him, but It definitely isn't with a lot of Americans.

15 minutes is a light year, in your case (and frankly the bulk of white people that I know).

The impression that os being created is that of an elitist; it is not a good move in American politics.

Except the fact that I used to work in a 90% black neighborhood and my next door neighbor is black. I get plenty of interaction with the African American Community, thank you very much.

I still don't get how giving a big speech elitist but whatever.

Like I said, a light year.  I had a friend raise it just last night after a visit to Myersdale, PA.  She was expecting to be lynched at the local fast food place.
Whatever, you seem to know more about my life than I but it matters not.

No, but I obviously know more about the Black urban community than you do.  You may drive through it, with your doors locked, but I live in it, by choice and I'm part of it.  That might explain why I've been a bit more sympathetic to Obama's membership in Trinity and his support of Faith Based Initiatives.

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Again you missed it.  Obama has to connect with the voter, directly.  Putting in a setting that makes him surrounded by a chanting crowd, even if properly implemented, does not do that.  The problem for Obama is that he doesn't understand that.  One of the most famous (and re-used) lines from any presidential campaign was "A you better off than you were ... ."  It was a direct appeal to the individual.  Nuremberg doesn't do that.

Obama has to connect, but he's failed so far.

[J. J.]

Do you follow me around, are you a creeper or somethin'?

I can't believe you don't know how arrogant you are sounding right now. I lived in Saginaw for half my life, moving out when I was 9. I went to a Catholic elementary school that was half AA. Heck, we practically lived almost in the ghetto. (We moved when it got bad.) I've been there when racist cops arrested my friends for wearing their pants to low. I've been there when my neighbor was shot for trying to make the community better. I was there when my former Bishop got robbed in the middle of a parking lot when he was trying to better the lives of the poor. So don't tell me that I don't know what a black urban community is like.

I live in North Philadelphia, with a white population of three percent, and I know most of my neighbors, and attend their weddings and family funerals.  My priest is Black, as is 2/3 of my church.  My most recent girlfriend was Black and from the neighborhood (Sissy doesn't count).

Please don't think you understand understand the Black community anymore than Obama understands the those white small town people that he calls "bitter."

[J. J.]

Do you follow me around, are you a creeper or somethin'?

I can't believe you don't know how arrogant you are sounding right now. I lived in Saginaw for half my life, moving out when I was 9. I went to a Catholic elementary school that was half AA. Heck, we practically lived almost in the ghetto. (We moved when it got bad.) I've been there when racist cops arrested my friends for wearing their pants to low. I've been there when my neighbor was shot for trying to make the community better. I was there when my former Bishop got robbed in the middle of a parking lot when he was trying to better the lives of the poor. So don't tell me that I don't know what a black urban community is like.

I live in North Philadelphia, with a white population of three percent, and I know most of my neighbors, and attend their weddings and family funerals.  My priest is Black, as is 2/3 of my church.  My most recent girlfriend was Black and from the neighborhood (Sissy doesn't count).

Please don't think you understand understand the Black community anymore than Obama understands the those white small town people that he calls "bitter."

Fine. I just don't want you saying I'm a light year away from them and you know them better than I. I don't want to have to play the "I'm more black than you!" game.

It is true, however.  You think that because you are "fifteen minutes away" from a black neighborhood, you have special insight.  In actuality, Keystone Phil and Ice Hockey live 15 minutes away from a Black inner city neighborhood; I don't see either one claiming this.

Your problem is one that you share with Obama, and you've just illustrated the point.

We live in a culturally segregated society by race.  It's not legal thing, it's not enforced, it isn't even economic, but the outlook is different.  Some of it is urban versus nonurban.  Neither culture is superior to the other, but they are different.  In many cases, both cultures are interested in the other culture.

It happens both ways.  A lot of I was hoping that someone that represented both cultures, politically, like Obama, could relate to both.  His remark shows he doesn't.  His rally in a stadium has the same effect; it doesn't reach that segment that he doesn't relate to.

[J. J.]

Yes, I do now live in an 90% white neighborhood, but I used to live in a mixed neighborhood in Saginaw where neither race was dominate. It was about 60-40 white with very little segregation given the city. Though racial tensions where high and are high now for numerous reasons, I learned a lot even though I was young from having 7 AA families on my street and 13 or 14 white families on the street. You may live in an area where one race is dominate but have you lived in one where it's split 47-43?

Yes, or close too it, and in areas with less than a 1% Black population as well.  It's clear you just don't get it.  Sorry, but Saginaw isn't exactly North Phila. 


Your problem is one that you share with Obama, and you've just illustrated the point.

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Because the bigness itself hurts, in increases the gulf between Obama and the voter.  This makes him look like he's setting himself apart.

BTW, I finally heard Jesse Jackson's remarks.  Yes, he's right about the appearance of talking down, but just not to Black people.  So now you have it in black and (semi) white.

[J. J.]

Clearly, your correct. Saginaw isn't North Philadelphia.  However, was Philadelphia ranked the 14th most dangerous Metro area in the nation? Come to Saginaw, Detroit or Flint to see what poor economic conditions can do to race relations.

You're over analyzing the impact the Convention speech is going to have. If Obama is seen as elitist, it won't be because of the convention speech. Opening the Convention isn't going to hurt Obama. I don't think there will be any effect either way, However, I could easily make the counter-argument that the speech will likely help him because he's opening it up to non-party insiders. I think it is inconsequential either way though. 

Philadelphia was supposedly the murder capitol of the US.  No, you can come to North Philadelphia, but stay a while.  Don't drive through with your doors locked.

No, I am saying that doing the speech this way reinforces the idea that Obama is an elitist, and that is not good.

[J. J.]

Clearly, your correct. Saginaw isn't North Philadelphia.  However, was Philadelphia ranked the 14th most dangerous Metro area in the nation? Come to Saginaw, Detroit or Flint to see what poor economic conditions can do to race relations.

You're over analyzing the impact the Convention speech is going to have. If Obama is seen as elitist, it won't be because of the convention speech. Opening the Convention isn't going to hurt Obama. I don't think there will be any effect either way, However, I could easily make the counter-argument that the speech will likely help him because he's opening it up to non-party insiders. I think it is inconsequential either way though. 

Philadelphia was supposedly the murder capitol of the US.  No, you can come to North Philadelphia, but stay a while.  Don't drive through with your doors locked.

No, I am saying that doing the speech this way reinforces the idea that Obama is an elitist, and that is not good.

That'd be Detroit. Whatever though, you can think I haven't been in those situations when I have. I have nothing to prove to you.

It reinforces the idea for people who want to believe it. (i.e. you)

Now it seems to be Jesse Jackson as well, though I believe the term was "talking down to."  It is a problem and he's running a risk of making it worse.  If you are an Obama supporter, pray for rain.

[J. J.]

Clearly this is going to be the #1 issue this election. Next Gallup poll will probably find that 30% of Americans consider Obama's elitism in holding his acceptance speech in a stadium the most important issue, beating out Iraq and the economy.

Who here argued that this would even be an issue? I know I'm not.

J. J.

Actually, I'm arguing that is not a particularly good idea to stage the acceptance speech this way, because it can make him look elitist or perhaps arrogant.  I'm not criticizing him for trying something different, but for this action, and solely from a political aspect.

[J. J.]

I agree to some extent.  If Republicans complained that Obama was showing off with his celebrity endorsements constantly and accused him of being self-centered because of him showing up and making millions at big Hollywood fundraisers, I might level the accusation again.

Obama has plenty of material for people to ding him on, he's in no ways perfect.  Why choose the most petty of things to level the big guns (as big as one can find on this forum)?

You mean Republicans like Jesse Jackson?

This entire thing is a perception problem for Obama, and this does not help.

[J. J.]

Considering the chanting "Obama" crowds are being used in negative commercials, it might be a good idea to pray for rain.

[J. J.]

Considering the chanting "Obama" crowds are being used in negative commercials, it might be a good idea to pray for rain.

I don't think that's really relevant.

I do, because of image it creates.  Obama is playing into that image, and it has a potential of costing him votes.

[J. J.]

Considering the chanting "Obama" crowds are being used in negative commercials, it might be a good idea to pray for rain.

I don't think that's really relevant.

I do, because of image it creates.  Obama is playing into that image, and it has a potential of costing him votes.

I know we've had this 'discussion' before and I know neither of us is going to change each other's mind, so....

Except, we've started to see some examples of it happening.  We've seen Obama's numbers, after huge press, either hold or decline slightly.  It's not good.

[J. J.]

Except, we've started to see some examples of it happening.  We've seen Obama's numbers, after huge press, either hold or decline slightly.  It's not good.

How can you attribute it to one image which doesn't even seem to be a problem for Obama? McCain has hit him on gas prices and not being ready to lead--would you argue those were non-factors compared to footage of people shouting his name?

It just doesn't make sense to me.

It makes his look like a "celebrity" and arrogant.  It's the image and it can hurt him.