Obama and the Italian-American vote

[NOVA Green]

It would be interesting to look at some cities/precincts with large Italian-American populations in places like Chicago, Cleveland, Buffalo compared with the metro-NY area population.

I suspect this will be difficult to quantify in much of the country, since by this point most second and third generation families have migrated to the suburbs and beyond outside of NY/NJ and small pockets elsewhere.

I suspect that the 3rd generation and beyond pretty much mirrors the White population of a similar demographic and region that they live and since it much more concentrated in the NE and Great Lakes district tends towards the Democratic party like many other older Whites in those regions.

It sounds like metro NY Italian-Americans might be a little more Republican than the average White population, certainly in Verily's sample of NJ.

[NOVA Green]

I'm an Italian.

thank you.

We have many things to be thankful for because of that great man.

OK----- not to rain on the parade here but are you both really thanking a corrupt populist quasi-fascist political figure?

Berlusconi got his financial start involving corrupt construction contracts with state dollars, then gravitated towards generating a media monopoly with similar financial dealings in that sector. Then was elected PM after forming an alliance with the Fascists and anti-immigrant LN movement, and later presided over the police murder of an anti-globalization demonstrator in Genoa a few years back.

Are both of you claiming that this populist, corrupt, ally of Fascist leaning political movements is a genuine FF? Surely there must be a better example of Italian heroes.

[NOVA Green]

OK----- not to rain on the parade here but are you both really thanking a corrupt populist quasi-fascist political figure?

Berlusconi got his financial start involving corrupt construction contracts with state dollars, then gravitated towards generating a media monopoly with similar financial dealings in that sector. Then was elected PM after forming an alliance with the Fascists and anti-immigrant LN movement, and later presided over the police murder of an anti-globalization demonstrator in Genoa a few years back.

Are both of you claiming that this populist, corrupt, ally of Fascist leaning political movements is a genuine FF? Surely there must be a better example of Italian heroes.

My "admiration" for Berlusconi is only half serious. I'm more of a fan of his party and him being a thorn in the side of the leftists in Europe.

You raise valid complaints but the "presided over the police murder of an anti-globalization demnstrator in Genoa" is just beyond ridiculous. Seriously. He was Prime Minister at a time when a demonstrator was killed. You act as if he ordered the murder. Don't be disingenuous. That's not like you.

OK--- I'll grant you that claiming that he was in any way directly involved, or that the death of a demonstrator was premeditated would be an absurd claim to make.

I followed the demonstrations closely through European websites at the time, and there were multiple instances of extreme police brutality including an incident where a school where several hundred demonstrators was raided by police as they were lined up against a wall, beaten with clubs, and forced to sing Fascist anthems to pictures of Mussolini. This was not at one of the Anarchist community centers, where violent actions were being planned.

The broader point is that he is more corrupt than Blago, and has had key allies on the extreme-Right at times during his coalition governments in a country where there is still a significant minority that has Fascist sympathies. Unfortunately the method of crowd control that he endorsed for the G-8 summit gave license to the more extreme-right elements of the police force to use methods that haven't been applied in Italy in decades.

I normally don't react to political postings in a particularly emotional fashion, but I lived in Europe for awhile and am sensitive to any mainstream political figure that gives license to the darker elements of the extreme-right. In my view Berlusconi offers nothing to a real center-right Italian political movement, and there are much better political figures to embrace that offer more for the future of that country and the world.