Israel

[Sbane]

My two cents: Israel should never have been created where it was because it was tantamount to punishing the people living there(doesnt matter how many there were) for the crimes of Nazi Germany. If any country should have had their territory taken away it should have been germany. Or America or Canada could have given a part of their huge territories to form a Jewish homeland. Of course the British thought it would be easier to just dump them amongst the Arabs. Oh and dont give me that crap about the Jewish homeland and sh**t. Just like the native americans aint getting their land back, the jews also shouldnt have got their land back. Plus they moved VOLUNTARILY to Europe. But of course this is in the past and we cannot go back and change history. I feel some of these attacks, especially by Hezbollah, are very reprehensible. Even the bombings that occur in Israel which kill civilans need to be condemned in the strongest terms. But I have question for you Israel defenders, if IDF troops are shot while inside or close to Palestinian territory would you consider that a terrorist act? I feel any attacks on the IDF are fair game and I hate how they are portrayed as terrorists here.

[Sbane]

No sh**t!  Nobody irrationally hates the Jews like Arabs do.  You're right Xahar, the Jews shouldn't have moved from one group of monsters to a BIGGER group of monsters.

I think that is a result of the arab-israeli conflict of the last 60 years. Their anger is current while European angers...well u guys know that story.

[Sbane]

Oh and dont give me that crap about the Jewish homeland and sh**t. Just like the native americans aint getting their land back, the jews also shouldnt have got their land back. Plus they moved VOLUNTARILY to Europe.

Not all that voluntarily; the Romans pretty much kicked them our in 70.

That is interesting to know but they still shouldnt have been allowed the land back. Same argument could be made for Native Americans and many such groups around the world. The only reason the creation of Israel was possible is because the British were COLONIZING that land. The Arabs or palastenians or whoever living on that land never got a vote.

[Sbane]

If you say that Jews don't deserve the land because they "invaded" it, then how do you explain the Arabs there. They invaded the region too. Why don't we just give the land back to the biblical Canaanites, the first people there? Wait, they don't exist! Israel has fought for that land and it is only half of the land that originally belonged to Jews in the bible. Israel is the only homeland for the Jews. Muslims have many countries for themselves. There are plenty of Christian majority countries as well. Israel does have many problems and they need to be fixed, but the Jews need a country of their own!

I am not denying they need a country of their own but you cannot just move people from a land and not expect them to fight. Its not like the Arabs did the holocaust which after all is the reason why Israel was created. Again good idea, wrong placement.

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This near Atheist WASP cannot support any policy that would materially increase the risk that Jews living in Israel would be subjected to mass slaughter or expulsion. Once is enough. Never again. If that issue is not at the forefront of one's mind, as one consider policy options in the region, one in my view is profoundly misguided, and yes, morally blind.

Which expulsion are you talking about?

[Sbane]

This near Atheist WASP cannot support any policy that would materially increase the risk that Jews living in Israel would be subjected to mass slaughter or expulsion. Once is enough. Never again. If that issue is not at the forefront of one's mind, as one consider policy options in the region, one in my view is profoundly misguided, and yes, morally blind.

Which expulsion are you talking about?

In the subject case, it was mostly slaughter, since the victims were not accepted elsewhere. I don't consider expulsion to be an acceptable substitute as a redux. One must deal with the now, in any event.

Talking about the germans huh? I understand the plight of the Jewish people but by creating Israel they created more sorrow in the Palestinian community. Obviously the blame is equally shared between the Israelis and the Arab league for f***ing up the '48 compromise but the real losers were the palestinian people. The palestinians have never got a fair compromise ever since the negotiations were always done by other arabs. They really need their own Mandela/Gandhi. I doubt if that is possibly anymore though.

[Sbane]

The jewish settlers deserve anything that happens to them for their crimes. Just because white south africans were able to negotiate a non-bkoody end to apartheid doesn't mean the zionist settlers will.

Let us hope for humanity's sake that they do. Honestly the middle east is too violent for rational talks. Also F*** the settlers who violate treaties, they deserve whatever happens to them.

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There is a disconnect why Jews got their homeland in palestine even though the genocide against them was conducted in Europe. I understand it was written in the bible and that Jews did live there a millenia ago, but is that really enough? The true reason is that the palestinians were powerless to stop the Zionists and it was because they had no true representation in 1948. It was unfair what was done to the palestinians in 1948 and the Zionists were not entitled to a single square inch of land. In a fair world a part of Germany/Poland would have been carved out for a Jewish homeland, but this world is not fair is it?

[Sbane]

There is a disconnect why Jews got their homeland in palestine even though the genocide against them was conducted in Europe. I understand it was written in the bible and that Jews did live there a millenia ago, but is that really enough? The true reason is that the palestinians were powerless to stop the Zionists and it was because they had no true representation in 1948. It was unfair what was done to the palestinians in 1948 and the Zionists were not entitled to a single square inch of land. In a fair world a part of Germany/Poland would have been carved out for a Jewish homeland, but this world is not fair is it?

This times 100. Carving out a jewish state in the Rhineland would have been perfectly acceptable to me(Germans did try to kill them all so they do need to pay for their crimes) but not one in Palestine.

Genius!  Lets put all the Jews in the backyard of the people that just got finished trying to kill them all.  And right next door to the newest super power that was at the time, killing millions more Jews!  I'm guessing Jews in 1946 wanted to get pretty far away from Germans and Russians.  Their sparsly populated and technologically backward homeland was a much better option, to them, at the time.  You can argue against them moving back there, but arguing that it would have made more sense for them to stay in Germany is flat out retarded.


..and I'm German(-American).

A country could have been created out of Germany just like it was out of Palestine. Land is land. In retrospect dont you think Israel would have been better of next to a sane German republic? I guess you can also make the argument that anti-semitism would have been much much higher in Europe, similar to how it is in the middle east currently.