Did George Zimmerman vote for Obama?

[J. J.]

He's a registered Democrat, but he also obviously hates blacks.

I don't know if he hates blacks.  He didn't say, **There is a black guy behaving suspiciously.**  He said, **There's a guy behaving suspiciously.** when asked by the 911 investigator, he said, **He's black.**

[J. J.]

He's a registered Democrat, but he also obviously hates blacks.

I don't know if he hates blacks.  He didn't say, **There is a black guy behaving suspiciously.**  He said, **There's a guy behaving suspiciously.** when asked by the 911 investigator, he said, **He's black.**

Walking around a neighborhood is not "behaving suspiciously" nor is it a reason to gun someone down. He did that because he was black.

Walking around a neighborhood at night, looking at buildings, might be considered "behaving suspiciously," by most people.  It would be a legitimate reason to call 911.

As for the shooting, let's wait until we actually have some forensic evidence.  Shooting someone "behaving suspiciously" isn't grounds for shooting someone.  Shooting someone attacking you is, in most circumstances.  It doesn't matter what color/ethnicity they are, in either case.

[J. J.]

Walking around at night is a legitimate reason for someone to call 911 on you? J.J. becomes more and more ridiculous with each post he makes.

You obviously led a sheltered life.

Someone at night, walking around a neighborhood, that doesn't seem to be looking for a house or walking through, and who doesn't live there, is suspicious.  It doesn't mean the person is doing anything wrong, but it is suspicious.

[J. J.]

Walking around at night is a legitimate reason for someone to call 911 on you? J.J. becomes more and more ridiculous with each post he makes.

You obviously led a sheltered life.

Someone at night, walking around a neighborhood, that doesn't seem to be looking for a house or walking through, and who doesn't live there, is suspicious.  It doesn't mean the person is doing anything wrong, but it is suspicious.

You said it justifies calling 911. Not "it is suspicious," but that it's a situation requiring police intervention.

Yes, I see someone walking behind buildings in my neighborhood, and it isn't someone local, I'd call 911.  It is part of patrolling.  Maybe the police will roll past and say, "Well, he's not doing anything."

From some of the details I've heard today, Martin was behind some building.  Someone unknown, at night, walking behind building may be perfectly innocent, but it also may warrant a call to 911.  I don't have a problem with calling at all.

Someone. late at night, knocked on my door and said one of my neighbors was sick.  He called me by last name (which is on my mailbox).  All of my neighbors call me "J. J."  I didn't answer and called 911.  One of my neighbors saw him, and said he was on a bike and seemed to driving back and forth looking at my house.  She called 911 too.  That's called being safe.

[J. J.]

Walking around at night is a legitimate reason for someone to call 911 on you? J.J. becomes more and more ridiculous with each post he makes.

You obviously led a sheltered life.

Have you ever been to an actual city? If I ever bothered about people walking around my neighborhood, I'd have to call police 5000 times a day.

A lot people might act suspiciously, most of them I know.  BTW:  I doubt if you'd venture into my neighborhood.

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The first time I looked at a house in my neighborhood, I parked.  Someone came out out of their house and asked me, politely, what I was doing there; he happened to be African-American (and a nice guy, who cares about his neighborhood).  I've been stopped by the police, three blocks away from my home.  After checking my ID, they said "Your going home, aren't you?"  One investigator for the DA's Office, who happened to be African American, asked me, "You're the only one, right?"  I've seen exactly what you are referring to, and I understand. 

There is nothing wrong with seeing someone, at night, behind buildings, who appears to be a stranger and calling 911.  I'm happy my neighbors watch out for me. 

Now, in answer to the question, if someone broke in and attacked me, and if I had access to a gun, of course.  We don't know if Zimmerman was attacked, but the actual evidence, not the political pandering, should tell us.

[J. J.]

What ag said basically. If I called 911 on every "suspicious" person in my neighborhood, using J. J.'s definition, I'd be calling 911 more than any other number and basically every day. I think Minneapolis 911 would also prefer to only get calls from real emergencies and am happy I'm not clogging up their phone lines every single time I see someone behind a building who is a stranger I don't recognize. I'd be calling 911 every single day if I did so.

And mind you even if something is a legitimate reason to call 911 it is not a legitimate reason to go after that person directly in complete violation of the 911 operator's instructions.

Let me understand this.  You don't think that a stranger, at night, walking in a residential area, presumably in an area behind buildings, not where foot traffic normally is, shouldn't be reported to the police by someone on town watch?

WOW! 

[J. J.]

What ag said basically. If I called 911 on every "suspicious" person in my neighborhood, using J. J.'s definition, I'd be calling 911 more than any other number and basically every day. I think Minneapolis 911 would also prefer to only get calls from real emergencies and am happy I'm not clogging up their phone lines every single time I see someone behind a building who is a stranger I don't recognize. I'd be calling 911 every single day if I did so.

And mind you even if something is a legitimate reason to call 911 it is not a legitimate reason to go after that person directly in complete violation of the 911 operator's instructions.

Let me understand this.  You don't think that a stranger, at night, walking in a residential area, presumably in an area behind buildings, not where foot traffic normally is, shouldn't be reported to the police by someone on town watch?

WOW! 

You seriously think I should report to the police every single person I see in the back alleys in my neighborhood?

If you live in gated community, this guy is in an area where there is not a lot of foot traffic, it's at night, and he is a stranger, HELL YES!  You can add that they had a rash of break-ins as well.

[J. J.]

People don't walk around recreationally where you guys live? I walk around my neighborhood all the time. Frequently after dark. Going nowhere in particular.  Sometimes it's just nice to go for a walk. Plenty of people do it.

People generally don't walk around in gated communities at night when they don't live there.

This sums it up nicely. 

I do walk for pleasure, in my own area, or perhaps in a park.  I generally walk where other people walk, paths, sidewalks.  Occasionally, I walk in the early evening, but generally it is in an area where most people would walk.  I even wear hoodies.

If someone would walk, wearing a hoodie, down the front of my street at 10:00 PM, that wouldn't be suspicious in the least.  I probably see would see someone walking down that street every night.

If I see someone walking behind my house, where most people don't walk, at 10:00 PM, where it is dark, I'd find that suspicious, even though, you could get to that area from the street.  And yes, I'd call 911 and report a prowler.  It would make no difference what he's wearing or his race, and I probably couldn't tell.

I'm not seeing anyone, especially someone on town watch, seeing something like that and saying, "This is unusual.  I'm going to tell the police."  It becomes more unusual when the person isn't a resident, the community is gated, and there were a rash of break-ins in the neighborhood. 

Now, if Zimmerman was told to stop following him, and he didn't that is a different issue.  Since he called using a cell phone, there should be a record of where the call was placed.  Was he told to stop and the shooting occurred 4 blocks away?  Was it roughly the same place where the call came from?

[J. J.]

Even if I accepted JJ's point (which I don't), I'm failing to make the logical leap from it being reasonable to call the police to it being reasonable to stalk and murder an unarmed teenager.

Well, we're just dealing with part of it.

BRTD, and a few others, are saying, basically:

"OMG, OMG, Zimmerman called the cops.  He's evil, EVIL!"

That isn't evil.  Zimmerman, who was part of the town watch, saw someone who wasn't from the area, at night, in an area where people don't usually walk.  It's reasonable to call the police in that circumstance.  That is actually a good indication he was not trying to be vigilante.

The questions is, what happened after that?  Did Zimmerman heed the warning and stop following Martin?  We know he left his car.   

[J. J.]

Here seems to be the tape:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9A-gp8mrdw&feature=relmfu

Now, why did Zimmerman get out of the car?

[J. J.]

This one, again if accurate, indicates that a guy in a white tee shirt was on top.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSyBNJqSQic&feature=relmfu

If that was Zimmerman, we're talking about him being the aggressor.  If Martin, he'd be the aggressor.

[J. J.]

To sum up, I really love this description of America as the place where walking the street is a suspicious activity, warranting a police investigation. I've always been under the impression, that the US is a free country and not a police state of the North Korean type. Apparently, at least according to J.J., I was wrong.

You were wrong.  The bulk of Americans don't walk behind houses, in strange neighborhoods, at night, in the rain.  It is not criminal, but it is unusual, and suspicious.  It does warrant the police saying, "Hey, what are you doing here."

[J. J.]

The neighborhood is not all that large.  It has around 45 6-unit builds, 250 in total.  The street that loops the entire neighborhood is 0.6 miles long.  Google says it can be walked in 11 minutes.

How do you know that they don't have block captains?

They might. The point is, the idea is not to go drive around looking for "suspicious" people, especially since we appear to be defining "suspicious" as "not recognized by people in the neighborhood", which brings xenophobia to a whole new level.

Zimmerman was on his way to the store.   Who is "we" who "appear" to be defining 'suspicious'?

Well pretty much just J. J. I suppose, but he's the one arguing that noticing a person in a neighborhood you don't recognize warrants a 911 call. I don't think the point of most neighborhood watch organizations is to call 911 for every single un-recognized person in the neighborhood (though I tend not to be fond of them in general, you don't need some nonsense group to call 911 if you see an actual crime committed, so they mostly just empower wannabe vigilantes like Zimmerman.)

No, that's only part of it.  It's where he is (not a resident or a frequent guest, and not in the area where most people walk), time of day and weather conditions, that he didn't appear to be going from Point A to Point B (looking at buildings, not looking at house numbers). 

Typical strawman argument from BRTD.

[J. J.]

I know what Amercians do and don't. Been there.

So, according to you, if somebody does something that the bulk of the Americans don't do, he should be stopped by the police. In my book, that's the very DEFINITION of a police state.

AG, you obviously don't know what is normal or not normal.  Sorry if you don't think someone who sure sounds like a prowler, though his actions, should be reported by town watch to the police.  That means that the police will be alerted and that they will be able to make their own observation (at least in theory).

[J. J.]

I know what Amercians do and don't. Been there.

So, according to you, if somebody does something that the bulk of the Americans don't do, he should be stopped by the police. In my book, that's the very DEFINITION of a police state.

AG, you obviously don't know what is normal or not normal.  Sorry if you don't think someone who sure sounds like a prowler, though his actions, should be reported by town watch to the police.  That means that the police will be alerted and that they will be able to make their own observation (at least in theory).

I know what's normal. I also strongly believe that nobody is under any obligation to act normal. At least, unless we are talking about a police state, which is what you, J.J., believe the United States of America is - or, at least, want it to be.

People are not obliged to act normally, but they must understand that it will produce extra scrutiny. 

I'm perfectly free to where a metal back brace, which I do wear.  I understand that by wearing it, I will get extra scrutiny going through a metal detector, which I do.  That is reasonable; it is done as a precaution.

Sorry if you don't agree with "See something.  Say something."

[J. J.]

It's funny how most of the people (BRTD, being an exception) complaining about the reporting of Martin to the police don't actually live in the US. 

Seriously, there isn't anything wrong with seeing someone, not from the area, in an unlit area, on a rainy night, in an area where people don't normally walk, where there have been break-ins, and saying, "Hey, maybe I should call the cops."

What happened after that is important.