Mirror, mirror on the wall, who was the most "childish" of them all?

[anvi]

It's a sad day to be a Democrat when your leaders consider $2.7 trillion in cuts and no revenue a "win".

Amen.

[BigSkyBob]

BigSkyBob,

I really don't see how the 'peace dividend' and interest savings could account for the entire $2.7 Trillion in Reid's proposal.  Even the most optimistic estimates regarding the 'peace dividend' only gets us to $1.3 trillion in deficit reduction. Where does the difference come from?

This is all you have to know: White House organ in press announces of the Reid plan, "Nothing is agreed to until everything is agreed to." That is, there is not single dime of current spending that the Democrats are willing cut for the sake of fiscal discipline no matter what is done about the debt ceiling.

In a nutshell, if the debt ceiling is not raised, they are against any cuts whatsoever. That is why we have a 14 trillion dollar national debt.

[Bull Moose Base]

BigSkyBob,

I really don't see how the 'peace dividend' and interest savings could account for the entire $2.7 Trillion in Reid's proposal.  Even the most optimistic estimates regarding the 'peace dividend' only gets us to $1.3 trillion in deficit reduction. Where does the difference come from?

This is all you have to know: White House organ in press announces of the Reid plan, "Nothing is agreed to until everything is agreed to." That is, there is not single dime of current spending that the Democrats are willing cut for the sake of fiscal discipline no matter what is done about the debt ceiling.

In a nutshell, if the debt ceiling is not raised, they are against any cuts whatsoever. That is why we have a 14 trillion dollar national debt.

Seriously, guys, this is no time to talk about the debt ceiling.

[CultureKing]

It's a sad day to be a Democrat when your leaders consider $2.7 trillion in cuts and no revenue a "win".

Amen.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

It's a sad day to be a Democrat when your leaders consider $2.7 trillion in cuts and no revenue a "win".

Amen.

Go to DailyKos and notice the absurdity as the site tries to promote a proposal that last week would have been considered a dream compromise concocted by Grover Norquist and Eric Cantor. Talk about cognitive dissonance, it feels like many progressives at this point are just trying to justify opposition to anything proposed by a Republican even if on the merits it might be the best deal policy-wise.

I'm really sick of the political posturing and electoral calculus, at this point I'm starting to think that a government shutdown would force these vain fools to come to a serious agreement that isn't rooted in gimmicks or scapegoating.

[Marston]

Obama's going to address the Nation at 9 PM on the debt ceiling.

Now, about "100" GOP congressmen are resisting any hike in the debt ceiling, according to Politico. They even oppose Boehner's two-step plan. They're just that hell bent on it.

Well, it's to the brink, I guess.

 

[Torie]

And now it's all over the Dems not wanting another vote before the election, so now it's time to score the planned wind down of the twin wars as "cuts" to shove stuff past the election. Charming.

[BigSkyBob]

Obama's going to address the Nation at 9 PM on the debt ceiling.

Now, about "100" GOP congressmen are resisting any hike in the debt ceiling, according to Politico. They even oppose Boehner's two-step plan. They're just that hell bent on it.

Well, it's to the brink, I guess.

 

Well, I suppose this means that Obama is going to be lying to the American People because he is already being cited as contacting banksters to reassure them if the debt ceiling isn't raised by August 2nd all our debts will be honored. Instead of telling the American people what he is telling banksters, I'm sure he continue to hype the doomsday scenario. Irresponsible.

[Marston]

Obama's going to address the Nation at 9 PM on the debt ceiling.

Now, about "100" GOP congressmen are resisting any hike in the debt ceiling, according to Politico. They even oppose Boehner's two-step plan. They're just that hell bent on it.

Well, it's to the brink, I guess.

 

Well, I suppose this means that Obama is going to be lying to the American People because he is already being cited as contacting banksters to reassure them if the debt ceiling isn't raised by August 2nd all our debts will be honored. Instead of telling the American people what he is telling banksters, I'm sure he continue to hype the doomsday scenario. Irresponsible.

Care to provide a link?

[BigSkyBob]

Obama's going to address the Nation at 9 PM on the debt ceiling.

Now, about "100" GOP congressmen are resisting any hike in the debt ceiling, according to Politico. They even oppose Boehner's two-step plan. They're just that hell bent on it.

Well, it's to the brink, I guess.

 

Well, I suppose this means that Obama is going to be lying to the American People because he is already being cited as contacting banksters to reassure them if the debt ceiling isn't raised by August 2nd all our debts will be honored. Instead of telling the American people what he is telling banksters, I'm sure he continue to hype the doomsday scenario. Irresponsible.

Care to provide a link?

As reported by Charlie Gasperino.

[Marston]

And now it's all over the Dems not wanting another vote before the election, so now it's time to score the planned wind down of the twin wars as "cuts" to shove stuff past the election. Charming.

It is a accounting-gimmick. I'll give you that. To assume that the Overseas Contingency fund will deplete by that much when we're such a war-happy nation is, well, do I even have to finish that sentence?

 

[Bull Moose Base]

http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-chait/92664/republican-debunks-myth-400-billion-tax-demand

Unsurprisingly, Boehner's account of why he walked away from a grand bargain with Obama turns out to be a lie.  Is it a surprise after his dishonest speech last night (in an unprecedented allotment of equal time for response to the oppostion)? Obama wants a blank check?  Created this crisis? Can't take yes for an answer? 

[Torie]

Curious that the Obama never officially "clarified" that the 400 billion was just an idea in exchange for something else, and if not acceptable, OK, we will drop it. That is the spin of this version. Obama not saying that is what happened, either by him, or his press spokesman, to wit that the original deal was still on the table, like Boehner said just yesterday, in fact, suggests perhaps the answer as to why.

So much spin, so little substance, so little ...

[anvi]

So, the narrative that's been going around about the $400 billion isn't quite right, and the White House didn't offer sufficient clarification to Boehner, or wasn't able to communicate it, or something. 

It still leaves the question open about how to get these bigger talks going again.  Can't Obama just pick up the damned phone, straighten the issue out with Boehner and get the ball rolling again?  He is the president after all, and not just a broker between other parties, even if he himself forgets that far too often.  They've been bargaining for revenue enhancements for months, for God's sake; they can't just let Reid snap them off the table so he can game Senate races--this is too important.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Curious that the Obama never officially "clarified" that the 400 billion was just an idea in exchange for something else, and if not acceptable, OK, we will drop it. That is the spin of this version. Obama not saying that is what happened, either by him, or his press spokesman, to wit that the original deal was still on the table, like Boehner said just yesterday, in fact, suggests perhaps the answer as to why.

So much spin, so little substance, so little ...

Why is it always the onus on Obama to prove that he is negotiating in good faith? I find it astonishing that after all the concessions he made during the last year(to the point that he strained his relationship with congressional Democrats) he is still treated by some people like some kind of duplicitous, conniving snake-oil salesman who has to constantly prove that he isn't an elephant.

[Bull Moose Base]

*btw let's drop the fantasy that Boehner misunderstood Obama.  Boehner's primetime address destroyed any credibility he had in reporting what's going on here.  His walk was most probably a move to up the pressure on Obama and Democrats so he could get to a deal less poisonous to his trying to stay Speaker.  Like many Boehner gambits, it sort of backfired.

Torie, Obama hasn't that I recall divulged any specific numbers of negotiations or negotiated in public.  He did say Boehner was refusing to call him back and informed him he was breaking off negotiations.  Who knows how few GOP votes JB could deliver on a Grand Bargain?  He can't even pass his own horrible plan for all we know. Is it so implausible that Boehner is just too scared to close the deal and ran and Obama didnt delve into specific offers?  

Anvi, why do you assume Obama hasn't?  Geithner hinted at as much on Sunday shows.  And Obama's speech seemed to rally the public to push for grand bargain over Reid.  I'm skeptical (but open-minded) about the extra revenue from lower taxes even with closed loopholes.  Let's not forget the Bush tax cuts didn't create jobs.  There's also the chance Bush tax cuts at all levels may be repealed if GOP holds them hostage for leverage to get richest tax cuts and Obama refuses to sign extension for all.  So both sides blame each other and disagree while the rev comes in.   Even if it doesn't happen, the politically risky prospect of it for both sides could motivate both sides to do tax reform that brings in less revenue than a full repeal

[anvi]

I assume that, Joementum, because Obama signed on to Reid's approach on Sunday.  It might be the case, given the Chait article you posted, that Boehner just decided to jump ship at some point, knowing or believing that the Obama-Boehner deal in the making was just not going to pass his chamber, and at that point, the White House just decided to huddle with Reid.  But I still think that Obama shouldn't have given up that easily--smart and effective revenue enhancements are essential to the long-term survival of entitlements.  The White House should keep trying to get the House Democratic caucus unanimously on board with that, and try to relieve the pressure on Boehner so he can disregard the lunatic and self-destructive TEAers in that chamber.  Signing on to Reid's deal so quickly only pushed Boehner farther into the arms of that caucus, and now he is wasting days doing cartwheels, backflips and getting caught in even further weakening miscalculations just to satisfy those guys.  

[Bull Moose Base]

Also CBO just scored Reid's plan as saving more than twice as much as Boehner's.  Sort of hilarious.

[Torie]

Also CBO just scored Reid's plan as saving more than twice as much as Boehner's.  Sort of hilarious.

Yes, the CBO scores the phony cuts from winding down the twin wars as cuts. S and P will not for rating purposes. Next!

[t_host1]

 The other night I was thinking of this thread when these two, Juan Williams of fox news a big Obama defender telling Shepard Smith, another Obama supporter, agreeing that future generations indebtedness for their 401k’s staying solvent was the most important reason why the country must incur trillions more in debt.
  Meanwhile, a growing number of SS recipients are making big batches of margaritas, preparing their front row seats, for the price of giving up their checks to watch the Clinton progressive movement and the Obama Marxist assault on America die before their eyes. 

[krazen1211]

Manchin to vote against Reid plan.

http://www.canadianbusiness.com/article/36991--manchin-balks-at-democrat-gop-debt-ceiling-plans



I wonder whether Reid gets 60 votes. Might be the first time Senate Democrats actually come up with their own ideas in this Congress.

[Bull Moose Base]

After Boehner refused to negotiate with Obama anymore and went to Reid, McConnell is now refusing to negotiate with Reid.  He'll only talk to Obama.  What was the question again?

[krazen1211]

After Boehner refused to negotiate with Obama anymore and went to Reid, McConnell is now refusing to negotiate with Reid.  He'll only talk to Obama.  What was the question again?

Why are Democrats behaving like children with no budget and no plan?

[Bull Moose Base]

After Boehner refused to negotiate with Obama anymore and went to Reid, McConnell is now refusing to negotiate with Reid.  He'll only talk to Obama.  What was the question again?

Why are Democrats behaving like children with no budget and no plan?

Children are notorious for not having a budget.

[memphis]

Also CBO just scored Reid's plan as saving more than twice as much as Boehner's.  Sort of hilarious.

Yes, the CBO scores the phony cuts from winding down the twin wars as cuts. S and P will not for rating purposes. Next!

Good. Ending Bush's policies is now phony. Let's end the Bush tax cuts since that would be phony also. Would shrink the debt substantially and wouldn't be a "real" tax hike.