International COVID-19 Megathread

[Lechasseur]

According to this French journalist in Hong Kong, Asia managed to contain the virus NOT THROUGH LOCKDOWN but THROUGH WEARING MASKS.

Yeah, I heard one before (plus, extremely thorough tracking of early infections based on the experiences they had gained from the previous SARS and Swin flu epidemics).

Problem is, there is a huge face-mask gap between Asia and Europe/America.

Yeah we have a severe shortage. The question is how to get more?

[Silent Hunter]

Everywhere has a severe shortage.

[Velasco]

According to this French journalist in Hong Kong, Asia managed to contain the virus NOT THROUGH LOCKDOWN but THROUGH WEARING MASKS.

Yeah, I heard one before (plus, extremely thorough tracking of early infections based on the experiences they had gained from the previous SARS and Swin flu epidemics).

Problem is, there is a huge face-mask gap between Asia and Europe/America.

Yeah we have a severe shortage. The question is how to get more?

There are two options: buy outside or mobilize industry to manufacture masks and respirators. The gap between East Asia and the West is a consequence of global capitalism and the relocation of manufacturing industries in China and other countries. This shortage should be a touchstone to rethink the offshoring model, revalue industry and begin to manufacture medical supply in Europe again.

Everywhere has a severe shortage.

That's not true. Everybody in East Asia wears a mask. As said above, East Asian countries managed to contain the virus wearing masks... but also through the use of big data. The Chinese could feel entitled to tell us their model of authoritarian capitalism and massive digital surveillance is superior


 

[rob in cal]

Really intrigued about whats going on in Germany.  They've kept the death per day rate down and based on patients in intensive care, no indication yet that that will change any time soon.  They are either doing something very right, or there is serious underreporting going on. If its a case of limiting the exposure of their elderly, how did they do this and so many other European countries didn't?

[Tender Branson]

Really intrigued about whats going on in Germany.  They've kept the death per day rate down and based on patients in intensive care, no indication yet that that will change any time soon.  They are either doing something very right, or there is serious underreporting going on. If its a case of limiting the exposure of their elderly, how did they do this and so many other European countries didn't?

In Germany, about 3.000 people are dying each day during a 1st quarter of a year (many of them old ones, from the flu).

I would assume that many of those also die from Corona these days, but are not showing up in the statistics as such, because they die at home or in the retirement home and autopsies and tests are not performed. Autopsies have declined a lot in recent decades here.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

According to this French journalist in Hong Kong, Asia managed to contain the virus NOT THROUGH LOCKDOWN but THROUGH WEARING MASKS.

Yeah, I heard one before (plus, extremely thorough tracking of early infections based on the experiences they had gained from the previous SARS and Swin flu epidemics).

Problem is, there is a huge face-mask gap between Asia and Europe/America.

Yeah we have a severe shortage. The question is how to get more?

The Polish government says "they're on their way". It's like with "the dragons are on their way" in that South Park episode.

[Silent Hunter]

That's not true. Everybody in East Asia wears a mask. As said above, East Asian countries managed to contain the virus wearing masks... but also through the use of big data. The Chinese could feel entitled to tell us their model of authoritarian capitalism and massive digital surveillance is superior

Considering that they failed to contain the pandemic in the first place, they'd be wrong.

[Velasco]

That's not true. Everybody in East Asia wears a mask. As said above, East Asian countries managed to contain the virus wearing masks... but also through the use of big data. The Chinese could feel entitled to tell us their model of authoritarian capitalism and massive digital surveillance is superior

Considering that they failed to contain the pandemic in the first place, they'd be wrong.

The pandemic originated there and ultimately China was able to contain it with less casualties than Italy right now. Also, China is not the only country in East Asia. Hong Kong, Singapore or South Korea have contained the pandemic. The latter is a demcratic country, but it has resorted to big data in a way we can't do in Europe due to privacy concerns. And all of them manufacture masks, while we have a shortage thanks to offshore capitalism. East Asians have a culture that is less individualist and a mindset more prone to accept government control through big data. I don't want a police state based on digital surveillance, so the fact East Asia is being more succesful than the West causes me some concern. If the West does not address the root causes that lead to failure, it won't prevail

[Silent Hunter]

Those countries also have more recent experience with pandemics; we really don't.

[Tender Branson]

We’ll probably hit 4.000 cases tonight or tomorrow morning.

Currently, it’s 3.784 cases - of which 114 are hospitalized (of which 14 are in intensive care units).

3.670 have mild symptoms and are quarantined at home.

56% of the infected are male.

The infected largely represent all age groups, but the dead disproportionately are over 65.

There are now 18 dead.

https://info.gesundheitsministerium.at

[America Needs R'hllor]

https://www.lalibre.be/debats/opinions/depuis-hong-kong-je-suis-ahurie-d-entendre-les-autorites-continuer-d-affirmer-que-le-masque-ne-sert-a-presque-rien-5e7728699978e201d8c94b71?fbclid=IwAR3r-0aYUvny7C1cJKyP7r4twLnhMpJiPqBjS-69ZIbVFmqpDnU-0SJlzYs

Very interesting. This article is a must read imo. You should all Google Translate it.

According to this French journalist in Hong Kong, Asia managed to contain the virus NOT THROUGH LOCKDOWN but THROUGH WEARING MASKS.

The question is- is this a correlation or causation? Imo Asia's biggest tool (ie Taiwan and SK) was mass testing.

[Lord Halifax]

That's not true. Everybody in East Asia wears a mask. As said above, East Asian countries managed to contain the virus wearing masks... but also through the use of big data. The Chinese could feel entitled to tell us their model of authoritarian capitalism and massive digital surveillance is superior

Considering that they failed to contain the pandemic in the first place, they'd be wrong.

The pandemic originated there and ultimately China was able to contain it with less casualties than Italy right now. Also, China is not the only country in East Asia. Hong Kong, Singapore or South Korea have contained the pandemic. The latter is a demcratic country, but it has resorted to big data in a way we can't do in Europe due to privacy concerns. And all of them manufacture masks, while we have a shortage thanks to offshore capitalism. East Asians have a culture that is less individualist and a mindset more prone to accept government control through big data. I don't want a police state based on digital surveillance, so the fact East Asia is being more succesful than the West causes me some concern. If the West does not address the root causes that lead to failure, it won't prevail

Could you elaborate on how they've used big data?

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Can't help but think all this stuff about East Asians being more inclined towards submission and collectivism than Caucasians is a bit racist tbh.

[Omega21]

Can't help but think all this stuff about East Asians being more inclined towards submission and collectivism than Caucasians is a bit racist tbh.

It's not a race thing or genetics, it's cultural and societal.

[urutzizu]

Can't help but think all this stuff about East Asians being more inclined towards submission and collectivism than Caucasians is a bit racist tbh.

You have a point there. Europeans in Spain/Italy/France have "submitted" to far more authoritarian measures than people in most asian countries (save China) ever did. But the thing is, such measures were not necessary in those countries because prior measures and advice put in place regarding social distancing were almost uniformly respected, while in Europe/America they were/are not. Whether that comes from prior experiences with pandemics or a different mindset in general is up to debate, but denying there haven't been very substantial differences in behavior between Asians and Westerners here, for reasons of political correctness especially, is a bit ridiculous.

[Velasco]

Can't help but think all this stuff about East Asians being more inclined towards submission and collectivism than Caucasians is a bit racist tbh.

It's not a race thing or genetics, it's cultural and societal.

South Korean philosopher Byung-Chul Han says in a recent essay on the viral emergency (can't find an English translation at this moment) East Asian societies tend to be more collectivist due to cultural factors such as Confucianism, while Western spcieties tend to individualism (which is different from the widespread selfishness) . He argues about this and the different ways to deal with the viral emergency in East Asia and the West: masks and big data Vs lockdowns and closed borders. Personally I tend to be cautious with arguments based on cultural differences, but I don't think this philosopher is suspected to be a racist

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

692 confirmed cases, 1047 suspected and 8 dead, the last one being 38-year old man with existing conditions.

[Tirnam]

602 new deaths in Italy, 4,781 new cases.

These numbers are down for the second consecutive day.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Can't help but think all this stuff about East Asians being more inclined towards submission and collectivism than Caucasians is a bit racist tbh.

It's not that East Asians are "more inclined towards submission and collectivism", but many of these are countries that have "vertical societies" in ways that most Western countries don't. Nobody worth listening to is suggesting that this fact is somehow innate to "the Asian mind" or whatever, or at least I hope nobody is.

[Tender Branson]

Cases in Austria have exploded today, after a relatively quiet weekend.

Maybe they didn't test/release as much over the weekend and only released the results today ?

Anyway, 4.500 cases now.

[President Johnson]

Breaking: Angela Merkel puts herself into self-quarantine for a week after having contact with an infected doctor. Her press secretary stated she will be be tested more than once over the next few days.

First test has been negative. However, Angela Merkel will stay in her private Berlin home for a few more days according to government officials. She is working though, as she did preside over today's cabinet meeting via videoconference.

Hopefully the next tests stay negative. Save our Mutti!

[DabbingSanta]

https://reut.rs/2UuDn9l

Although Ottawa and the provinces have urged Canadians to stay at home, and in some cases put limits on gatherings, Trudeau said too many people were disregarding the advice.

“We’ve all seen the pictures online of people who seem to think they are invincible. Well, you’re not,” Trudeau said.

“Enough is enough. Go home and stay home ... we’re going to make sure this happens, whether by educating people more on the risks or by enforcing the rules if that’s needed,” he told reporters outside his residence, where he has been confined since his wife was diagnosed with the virus.

....

Trudeau is due to speak to the premiers on Monday to coordinate the messaging on self-isolation. All the provinces have imposed some sort of state of emergency.

He also said he would discuss with them what the government could do under the 1988 Emergencies Act, which allows Ottawa to impose strict limits on the movement of people.

Officials said last week the act would be a last resort, but Trudeau reiterated “we haven’t taken anything off the table.”

As I feared, the covid-19 hysteria is going to cause a lot of civil liberty issues moving forward. As Trump said this morning, it will be the reaction that causes the second great depression, not the disease itself.

[parochial boy]

On that cultural thing - I'm gonna Swisspost, but a funny one that has been picked up here is that within Switzerland it has been the "Latin" cantons that have been far harder hit than the German ones. Ticino obviously, but the French speaking cantons have had virtually half of the cases nationwide despite only 25% of the population. Slight parallels with the worst hit countries in Europe generally being the romance speaking southern European ones.

This has been explained, in the French speaking papers even, as being basically because the latins are crap at following rules and less inclined to "personal responsibility" (and also have a culture that is much more "huggy-kissy" compared to the reserved Germanics - I don't entirely buy this part as the Swiss-Germans absolutely adore organised fun); but also have a greater faith in the state. Which is why calls for the most restrictive measures have almost all come out of French and Italian Switzerland.

So, we're perfectly able to do the "cultural differences" thing even within Europe

[Mike88]

Portugal update: The number of cases rose to 2,060, 460 than yesterday. The number of deaths rose to 23, but there are already 14 fully recovered.

Less than 10% are hospitalized, and just 47 in critical condition. However, there are reports of worrisome conditions in some nursing homes across the country.

The State of Emergency is in full application now, and, until now, 8 people have been fined for violating the law. And yesterday, the mayor of my city had to almost close down the city as many people were coming to the city to walk and enjoy the sunshine along the seashore. Police was called to close the seashore and were stopping people in the city's entrance.

[afleitch]

UK now effectively in lockdown with police enforcement, but their statutory powers to do this is somewhat limited.