DC Unrest Megathread

[Badger]

The video is actually very good. He should have recorded this video on November 6 or 7 when it became clear that he had lost the election.

He should resign now to avoid being impeached and Pence should pardon him.

God's how in God's name can you say he deserves pardoned? Is this just a way of pardoning your own conscience for supporting this neo-Nazi?

[Badger]

The video is actually very good. He should have recorded this video on November 6 or 7 when it became clear that he had lost the election.

He should resign now to avoid being impeached and Pence should pardon him.

God's how in God's name can you say he deserves pardoned? Is this just a way of pardoning your own conscience for supporting this neo-Nazi?

No. It's just an embarrassment to the country to have a former President prosecuted for crimes and possibly convicted.

Embarrassment to you, that is. It's beyond an embarrassment to our country if we don't prosecute.

[Badger]

Might as well do a response to all the craziness that happened, now that its one day past and emotions have been sorted out.
What happened yesterday was not acceptable, and I don't see any blue avatar here trying to defend the looting and damage done. Those people will hopefully be charged and go to jail and pay all appropriate fines/fees. It is understandable to be upset at what happened with the election and how it was counted but this simply was not the way to do it. Changes need to be made at the state level in order to ban VBM and all other regulations. Capitol Hill is not the main place where that happens.
However, that being said the summer riots greatly encouraged this. When people saw ANTIFA unleashed in Portland and stores being broken into and cops kneeling in front of BLM they believed that they could (wrongfully) do this stuff too.
I am still a Trump supporter and was since 2015, as I do not think it is his fault. He was misguided in the approach post Nov 3 and I do not think the election was stolen, but he never wanted the Capitol building to be stormed. Instead he wanted large outdoor protests but he never had intent of something like this happening. Removing Trump would be a horrible decision as he only has 13 days left, and impeachment would only add more fuel to the fire. The country needs to unite at this moment not get more divided, which attempting to lock up a former President will do.

What a good little goosestepper you are. Pathetic

[Badger]

Meanwhile half of the Republican Party approves of the riots, and their conspiracy theory was validated by a majority of the Republican House caucus just hours after the attack!

To be fair, pretty much every Republican has condemned the violence, just as how establishment Dems condemned BLM riots.

But only a minority are rightly blaming Trump for their actions, and NONE are taking responsibility for the wholescale encouragement and parroting of Trumps lies and incitement.

Furthermore, unlike Trump and 80-plus percent of the Republican Party, the Democrats didn't spend literally several months beforehand encouraging the riots. New paragraph, there is a huge huge distinction between BLM marches and protests for a small minority of empty pot anarchists who despise Joe Biden and Democratic party is much as they do Republicans committed actual acts of violence and destruction, along with a bunch of opportunistic criminals who have Jack s*** to do with BLM. Conversely, the proud boys is an organization 100 and 1% founding and dedicated to support Donald Trump aggressive mob violence against leftist, and Trump has supported them without reservation

[Badger]

Might as well do a response to all the craziness that happened, now that its one day past and emotions have been sorted out.
What happened yesterday was not acceptable, and I don't see any blue avatar here trying to defend the looting and damage done. Those people will hopefully be charged and go to jail and pay all appropriate fines/fees. It is understandable to be upset at what happened with the election and how it was counted but this simply was not the way to do it. Changes need to be made at the state level in order to ban VBM and all other regulations. Capitol Hill is not the main place where that happens.
However, that being said the summer riots greatly encouraged this. When people saw ANTIFA unleashed in Portland and stores being broken into and cops kneeling in front of BLM they believed that they could (wrongfully) do this stuff too.
I am still a Trump supporter and was since 2015, as I do not think it is his fault. He was misguided in the approach post Nov 3 and I do not think the election was stolen, but he never wanted the Capitol building to be stormed. Instead he wanted large outdoor protests but he never had intent of something like this happening. Removing Trump would be a horrible decision as he only has 13 days left, and impeachment would only add more fuel to the fire. The country needs to unite at this moment not get more divided, which attempting to lock up a former President will do.

Zip it, fascist. Nobody wants to hear it.

There are only two things I am willing to hear from Trump supporters right now.

1) "I am sorry. My vote aided and abetted an attempt at a fascist coup in the United States. I will now live the rest of my life attempting to atone for what I have done."

2) "I am clearly a terrible judge of character. Democrats, please educate me. How did you know the warning signs of Trump's narcissistic, dictatorial personality before I did? Before I ever cast another vote, I should learn how to watch for these things."

Anything else is either apologism, whataboutism, or genuine fascism.

[Badger]

Meanwhile half of the Republican Party approves of the riots, and their conspiracy theory was validated by a majority of the Republican House caucus just hours after the attack!

To be fair, pretty much every Republican has condemned the violence, just as how establishment Dems condemned BLM riots.

147 Republicans voted to object to the election based on the president's lies. They know his claims are and have always been completely fabricated and they've decided perpetuating the lies is worth more to them than defending and uniting the country. Those lies triggered the violence by Trump's supporters. He's radicalized them with lies that their country is being stolen from them, their culture is being stolen from them, their election is being stolen from them.

The lies are behind the violence and unless the Republican Party comes out and apologizes to the nation for breeding terrorism in the gullible to get votes, they're 100% still the pieces of crap to blame.

Saying "I still think I won but don't hurt people" with no affect isn't worth a bucket of snake piss.

But it’s different from actually supporting the violence, which I’ve seen no Republican do so far.

An Al Qaeda recruiter who never leaves camp or hurts someone directly is still to blame. You don't get to spend years radicalizing people and suddenly be outraged they're radicalized and insane. They need to stop the lying or they're knowingly encouraging more of this. 147 of them voted with hopes of maintaining this madness to further their own ambitions. They're all going to hell when they die.

I don’t think they actually wanted to incite violence though.

WHAT DID THEY THINK WAS GOING TO HAPPEN?

You spend months telling people this election is the "last chance to save the country" and if Biden wins we'll be a socialist tyrannical dictatorship, then he wins and you say "THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN! WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING!"

How do you think people are going to react to that?!

Idiocy =/ condoning violence.

Okay, child, we get it. You refuse despite every scrap of evidence and explanation of the basic concept of aiding and abetting, to acknowledge the Republican party at anything bad to do it is. We get it. Your conscience is absolved of all naughty list. Now go sit in the corner while the grown-ups continue their discussion.

Don't worry, another would be destroyer of democracy will come along in the Republican Party within the next two or four years, then you will have every opportunity to support all over again without having learned a damn thing.

[Badger]

Meanwhile half of the Republican Party approves of the riots, and their conspiracy theory was validated by a majority of the Republican House caucus just hours after the attack!

To be fair, pretty much every Republican has condemned the violence, just as how establishment Dems condemned BLM riots.

147 Republicans voted to object to the election based on the president's lies. They know his claims are and have always been completely fabricated and they've decided perpetuating the lies is worth more to them than defending and uniting the country. Those lies triggered the violence by Trump's supporters. He's radicalized them with lies that their country is being stolen from them, their culture is being stolen from them, their election is being stolen from them.

The lies are behind the violence and unless the Republican Party comes out and apologizes to the nation for breeding terrorism in the gullible to get votes, they're 100% still the pieces of crap to blame.

Saying "I still think I won but don't hurt people" with no affect isn't worth a bucket of snake piss.

But it’s different from actually supporting the violence, which I’ve seen no Republican do so far.

An Al Qaeda recruiter who never leaves camp or hurts someone directly is still to blame. You don't get to spend years radicalizing people and suddenly be outraged they're radicalized and insane. They need to stop the lying or they're knowingly encouraging more of this. 147 of them voted with hopes of maintaining this madness to further their own ambitions. They're all going to hell when they die.

I don’t think they actually wanted to incite violence though.

They're adults. They saw the violence happen. Even if they didn't want it go that far they still continued the behavior that made it happen. If they were naïve, that excuse was eradicated by the time the 147 traitors made that vote. It was criminally irresponsible and deliberate.

And none of them have the excuse that they believe the vote was truly stolen. They all know how elections work and none are trying to throw out congressional results where they won. They know Trump lost because his behavior turned out Democratic voters, but they're afraid his base won't vote for them in 2022 or 2024 without this commitment to the lies he's made them believe.

This isn’t me supporting the people opposing the certification of electoral votes- they should honestly resign immediately- but opposing the results doesn’t mean they actually support the violence.

I think we are getting bogged down in semantics now. I appreciate and respect your view that the idiots in Congress who facilitated this my supporting Trump's groundless conspiracy theories and incitements should resign. I'll also go to a degree and say that most of the people didn't want this kind of violence, with a possible exception of crew Mad Men like Mo Brooks or Louie gohmert.

But this isn't about "supporting the violence". This is about these same individuals you and I are discussing non stop pouring gasoline on a campfire for several months straight, and then claimng they oppose the forest fire that just ignited. Regardless of whatever mealy-mouthed self-serving statements they are now making about "opposing" the forest fire, that doesn't absolve them one iota of recklessly starting it in the first place.

[Badger]

I think there are some really bad-faith arguments about conservatives and Republicans in this thread that I want to do my best to address in a level-headed manner and avoid "whataboutism" as much as possible.

Most respectable conservatives- most of whom voted twice for Donald Trump- that I know in real life are equally embarrassed and saddened by this as all Americans are.  What happened is not OK, and we should all be ashamed of that display and how it looks on our country- and especially on our party.  I agree that, after this, Trump should be nowhere near power ever again.  Where I disagree is that I don't think Trump is really a fascist dictator, but rather a petulant crybaby with a massive ego.  His behavior since the election strikes me more like a 5 year old mad that he lost a game to his brother than a wannabe dictator.  Regardless, though, either one is bad enough that he should never be in power again.  And, I will do everything I can to try to encourage my party to move on from this man.  I would even support exercising the 25th Amendment or impeachment.

But, I've seen a lot of posts here suggesting that, by voting for him, we are endorsing the worst traits that he could ever possess.  I think most people would agree that there is no perfect presidential candidate and we always have to prioritize things.  I've always had major misgivings about President Trump.  Just look back to how I talked about him during the 2016 GOP primaries.  Ultimately, I voted for him because I am very issue-focused and care very little about personalities.  I viewed it as just looking at a list of issues and seeing who I agreed with more often.  Maybe I should have been more forceful on a couple of occasions, but, through the years, I feel that I have been willing to criticize the president when he is wrong, and that continues to this day.

Even worse to me is the suggestion that many red avatars have made that we should abandon all of our principles to vote against all Republicans because they are "enablers".  I could not disagree more strongly with that.  First, if all respectable conservatives left the GOP, all you would have left would be the loons who stormed the Capitol, and that's not an outcome anyone wants.  Almost all Republican officeholders, including those who have been staunch allies of Trump to this point, are speaking out vigorously against these riots.  Maybe some Republican officeholders have been too scared to go against Trump, but I understand why.  Like it or not, politicians are almost always trying to make politically calculated moves.  Going against Trump publicly, loudly, and frequently was not going to be in the cards for most officeholders.  With that said, that doesn't mean that their true allegiance is to Trump.  Most officeholders probably really saw him as a "useful idiot" of sorts.  It seems to be becoming more and more clear to me since yesterday's domestic terrorism event that most Republicans in office are going to be steering the party away from Trump.  

And, even if that's not the case, I don't think I could vote for a Democrat because there are issues that I literally view as life and death that I cannot support.  I couldn't ever hold my nose for Trump again, either.  I truly believe that most of us are doing the best we can in a very broken political system, and we should not paint all people in a party with a broad brush of the worst people theoretically on their side.

God Bless!

No, just no.

You're attempting to write Trump off as just another politician after what he has done over the last 4 years after what he did yesterday how he is fundamentally unlike any other politician American history unravel them very fabric of democracy, because you couldn't handle not voting for a conservative? You sir, are just as big a part of the problem as Trump himself. You Oughta be embarrassed far far more than you are.

Don't offer this week need spineless excuse that you need to keep supporting Republicans who are embarrassed by yesterday or otherwise The Crazies will take over. Guess what Sunshine? That's already happened! And you know one of the biggest reasons? Is because again, exactly like people like you. He will swallow Trump and all his outright sedition and threatening the very core of American democracy itself because of your conservative "principles". If your principles value of conservatism over democracy, then you, again, are absolutely part of the problem here.

It's real simple, buddy boy. Either you vote out Republicans actively aided and abetted and repeated Trump's lies and incitement, even if God forbid that means you have to clutch your pearls and vote for a Democrat, or this will happen again. Why on Earth will the Republican party ever change when you continue to an able what happened yesterday. It wasn't just about Trump. Take a long look in the mirror and accept it.

God bless us all indeed, because of people like you. Still, without hesitation, choose trumpism under another candidates name as long as it's a republican, we will surely need it.

[Badger]

So when are the murder charges coming?

In that role, Garland's responsibilities included the supervision of high-profile domestic-terrorism cases, including the Oklahoma City bombing, Ted Kaczynski (also known as the "Unabomber"), and the Atlanta Olympics bombings.

Soon.

You know, it dawned on me it's quite possible the USDA offices are holding off another two weeks before filing charges to avoid any pardons by Trump. I'm not sure Trump can do General unnamed pardons to 18 all persons involved, blah blah blah. If not, that very well might be a serious consideration here

[Badger]

https://twitter.com/gregpmiller/status/1347369974860554244

Treason

Actual god damned aide and comfort to the enemy treason.

[Badger]

One of the frustrating things about all of this is it could have been avoided right from the start if Republicans had just picked basically any other candidate, in what was a large primary with lots of acceptable choices (relatively speaking).

Instead, they opted for the biggest loudmouth on stage, who despite having a very long and storied history of lying, scamming and disloyalty, earned enough votes to be nominated because people liked that he didn't talk like a regular politician. Guess what, those other pesky things like ethics, decent behavior and critical thinking actually matter when choosing leaders.

So for the love of god Republicans, next time have some decency and don't put the country through this kind of bs again.

Trump has caused incalculable damage on our national psyche and discourse. However, let's not forget that in terms of him becoming the Republican standard-bearer the last five years, he is every bit as much of a symptom of underlying issues with that organization.

[Badger]

Saying all Trump supporters support the despicable crap from yesterday is just as bad as saying all Biden voter support looting/rioting and antifa.  The broad generalizations are not fair to either side, so cut the shiit.

Not even close..

Find me one antifa anarchist in the country who actually supports bye. You should be smart enough and connected with politics enough to know that those Steinke despise by nin the Democratic party as much as they do Trump and Republicans. Hell, these are the types who think Bernie Sanders is a Stella!

The proud boys, the paramilitary auxiliary of the Maga movement, 110%.

You really can't distinguish between the ninety-nine percent of BLM marches and protests versus the Looting and rioting? Tell me Tim, blaming Martin Luther King in the NAACP 4 the race riots that went on in Detroit, Watts, Etc? A lot of know-nothing white conservatives did. You're smart enough and historically aware enough, though, to understand the distinction. So why do you completely failed miss that today. New paragraph, and then that part about Twitter a damn near every single Democrat condemned the Looting and burning. Or is Mitt Romney responsible for looting and rioting to since he participated in the BLM parade? The distinction seems lost on you.

And then on the other side we have Trump aggressively, continuously, and unwaveringly encouraging his most thuggish supporters among the proud boys and qanon to take exactly the type of action they took yesterday the difference between Biden's reaction to rioting and looting versus Trump's insight into violence is literally night and day how you were even beginning to agree in some sort of bizarre whataboutism is behind me.

 Tim, while I've always thought you were smart poster, this post is grossly disappointing. It is without a doubt one of the most unthoughtful things you've ever posted, even if it was only an empty quote. I hope I may have helped you change your mind on this matter

[Badger]

snip

BLM was not mentioned in that post. But Antifa was. I didn't care much for the mention of Antifa. I however loathe the looting and the violent rioting of the past year and consider what said in that post to overall be sufficiently unflattering to be a worthy enough comparison on the whole. It's also the closest comparison that can be made to what has happened yesterday, and the post was in the spirit of what I was saying, so I empty-quoted it for sake of bipartisan unity.
The violent, objectionable behavior of right-wing wackos doesn't erase the horrid wrongness of the property damage and wrong-headed civil disorder of 2020.

Kindly re-read my post. You will see that I very explicitly referenced BLM, both in comparison to civil rights marches vs. Riots in the late 60s, as well as Mitt Romney's participation.

No one is saying the burning, looting, and throwing things at cops this past summer was justified. Hell, only a slight Menorah T of BLM supporters ever did, cleaning the cops were just as bad blah blah blah. The point is labeling the looting and burning at the feet of BLM is like Blaming Martin Luther King for the Watts 67 riots. And just as grossly incorrect.

the other huge distinction is lack of any Democratic party member from Vine on down inciting or endorsing such acts of violence and burn, instead universally repudiating them. Meanwhile, you have the president of the United States himself and the vast majority of other party holders expressly inciting violence.

Seriously man, trying to make any sort of whataboutism comparison here is completely non factual.

[Badger]

snip

BLM was not mentioned in that post. But Antifa was. I didn't care much for the mention of Antifa. I however loathe the looting and the violent rioting of the past year and consider what said in that post to overall be sufficiently unflattering to be a worthy enough comparison on the whole. It's also the closest comparison that can be made to what has happened yesterday, and the post was in the spirit of what I was saying, so I empty-quoted it for sake of bipartisan unity.
The violent, objectionable behavior of right-wing wackos doesn't erase the horrid wrongness of the property damage and wrong-headed civil disorder of 2020.

Kindly re-read my post. You will see that I very explicitly referenced BLM, both in comparison to civil rights marches vs. Riots in the late 60s, as well as Mitt Romney's participation.

No one is saying the burning, looting, and throwing things at cops this past summer was justified. Hell, only a slight Menorah T of BLM supporters ever did, cleaning the cops were just as bad blah blah blah. The point is labeling the looting and burning at the feet of BLM is like Blaney Martin Luther King for the Watts 67 riots. And just as grossly incorrect. The paragraph the other huge distinction is lack of any Democratic party member from Vine on down inciting or endorsing such acts of violence and burn, instead universally repudiating them. Meanwhile, you have the president of the United States himself and the vast majority of other party holders expressly inciting violence.

Seriously man, trying to make any sort of whataboutism comparison here is completely non factual.

I wasn't talking about your post. I was talking about the post I empty-quoted. I never implied anything negative about BLM in empty-quoting it. Please kindly re-read my posts from that time period if you want my in-depth thoughts on the matter, but the long and short is - I wasn't criticizing BLM, and I have always maintained BLM, looters, and rioters were three distinct groups.
I don't appreciate your well-intentioned but still wrong misreading of my own statements or intentions of my posts of either now or back then. I don't want to associate you with negative frames of reference so I kindly, kindly ask you - please reconsider what your conception of my statements now were.

I think it is fair to say that all Trump supporters, even those who now profess opposition to the capital take over nevertheless need to bear personal and political responsibility for it happening. This incident occurred hundred and 1% solely because Donald Trump was elected president despite glaring, consistent, blindingly obvious demonstrations throughout the last five years that he is morally, mentally, emotionally, and thoroughly unsuited for the role as president. A paragraph and again, there is a fundamental difference Democrats universally not inciting or encouraging rioting or looting, while the leader of the Republican party and most of its officials actively fermenting a steady stream of untruthful conspiracy theories and incitements to what we saw yesterday. Again, this isn't easy for the distinction to make.

[Badger]

🤔

https://twitter.com/SeamusHughes/status/1347304182718615558

I assume these are against the rioters?

God. How many of these people will Trump take the opportunity to issue a last-minute pardon for? Better than fifty-fifty odds he does so for everybody put them folks charged with killing the cop.

[Badger]

🤔

https://twitter.com/SeamusHughes/status/1347304182718615558

I assume these are against the rioters?

God. How many of these people will Trump take the opportunity to issue a last-minute pardon for? Better than fifty-fifty odds he does so for everybody put them folks charged with killing the cop.

He denounced them in his video after they did his bidding.

Please. We all know that was just for show. His true feelings were let out where he lauded their Acts.

The only damn thing Trump cares about has nothing to do with right and wrong or basic morality, but personal loyalty to him. And ask his issuance of repeated pardons two criminals like Flynn and stone demonstrate, the writers wrongdoing in his name only endears them damn.

[Badger]

Something that's been bothering me:

When I watched Joe Biden speak live, all I could think about is how elderly and frail he sounded. He didn't sound strong, and strength is something we need in light of a mob attack on the Capitol. He sounded very weak. I don't have confidence in him.

Calmness isn't weakness.  It's just something that we're not used to from a President lately.

[Badger]

Thomas must disavow and cut ties with his revolting wife or be impeached.

He won't be though.  McConnell cares too much about Judges.  Lets be clear, the only reason that Republicans (most of them) are now coming out against Trump is because he's politically toxic and they've made the calculus that they will get more power without him than with him going forward.  Especially now that he lost re-election and they lost the Senate.  Judges are lifetime appointments and they don't want to give up that power.  That's why Democrats need to just pack the Court and dilute GOP power there.  The SCOTUS is the most out of touch with society it's ever been in the last 100 years.

This. If Trump wasn't already a lame duck with less than two weeks left, almost every one of these Republican Profiles in Courage would be calling on him to unify the nation and make a statement, not resign.

[Badger]

At this point, Biden's DOJ/FBI should consider putting every remaining Trump supporter on a terrorist watch list. 

That is absurdly hyperbolic.  Even if many partisan Republicans are no longer really supporting Trump, there are still tens if millions of Trump supporters, most of whom are pretty normal people.  Rhetoric like this is only fanning the flames and making things worse.

I agree. lumping all Trump supporters with the crazies who stormed the capitol is dangerous and wrong. A future Republican president could easily criminalize all of Biden's supporters as Antifa sympathizers.

No, no one could not. Antifa despises the Democratic party, I'm included, as much as they do Trump and the Republicans. Trump's supporters meanwhile have cuddled and condoned Trump despite every single day of The Last 5 Years demonstrating loud and clear in our faces his fundamental in complete emotional, mental, and moral stability ever be even considered as president of the United States.

Come on people. It's not like what happened yesterday given everything about Trump was remotely a surprise. His voters can't begin to claim this was unforeseeable. Well, other than to the Capitol police force, of course.

[Badger]

https://twitter.com/Tom_Winter/status/1347629081752428551

F**k.

[Badger]

At this point, Biden's DOJ/FBI should consider putting every remaining Trump supporter on a terrorist watch list. 

That is absurdly hyperbolic.  Even if many partisan Republicans are no longer really supporting Trump, there are still tens if millions of Trump supporters, most of whom are pretty normal people.  Rhetoric like this is only fanning the flames and making things worse.

I agree. lumping all Trump supporters with the crazies who stormed the capitol is dangerous and wrong. A future Republican president could easily criminalize all of Biden's supporters as Antifa sympathizers.

No, no one could not. Antifa despises the Democratic party, I'm included, as much as they do Trump and the Republicans. Trump's supporters meanwhile have cuddled and condoned Trump despite every single day of The Last 5 Years demonstrating loud and clear in our faces his fundamental in complete emotional, mental, and moral stability ever be even considered as president of the United States.

Come on people. It's not like what happened yesterday given everything about Trump was remotely a surprise. His voters can't begin to claim this was unforeseeable. Well, other than to the Capitol police force, of course.

Then should we blame all Black Lives Matter supporters for the rioting that happened last summer? If your answer is no, then why should we blame every Trump voter for the riots.

I kind of busy and you are trying my patience having to explain this so obviously, but I will give it a shot. Black lives matters versus rioters. Damn near no connection. The church congregations and Community organizers and ordinary neighbors who came out on the street March against police brutality, right down to police Chiefs and sensible Republicans like Mitt Romney, had exactly f*** all to do with random criminal thugs breaking department store windows and looting them. Get that through your head. I realized you might have trouble distinguishing between black people angry in the street, but there is a really really really really really big difference between people who protested and at worst may have been arrested for sit-down stripes with rare variation, and assholes who set buildings on fire or stole stuff. Again, even though the riots and the BLM movement both grew out of the gorge Floyd killing and other such incidences such as Brianna Taylor, etc etc etc, drawing a connection between BLM marching and protesting versus looting and burning is a 99% non-existent connection outside the world of white conservative fantastical nightmares.

On the other hand, Trump has loudly, obviously, brazenly, and unapologetically denigrated and undermined Democratic norms and extolled direct violent action against his political opponents since he was a candidate five years ago. And Trump voters accepted this as okay and all right, or at least better than God forbid voting for a Democrat. Again, what happened yesterday was a thousand percent consistent with everything Trump has said or done for the last five years. Yes, Trump voters need to take responsibility for this.

The only worthwhile response from any Trump supporter is this shouldn't have happened and I should have never supported this man or anyone like him. No one gives a s*** if you are willing to write off Donald Trump now that he has less than two weeks is President and your precious Republican legislation of conservative judges, environmental deregulation, and tax cuts don't rely on him. Trump opponents don't give a s*** - - well, not much anyway - - about saying I Told You So. I want to see actual honest genuine change from Republicans. What the hell difference does it make if they ate at the eleventh hour and 59th minute reject Trump, but still won't begin to reject trumpism in their party?

[Badger]

At this point, Biden's DOJ/FBI should consider putting every remaining Trump supporter on a terrorist watch list. 

That is absurdly hyperbolic.  Even if many partisan Republicans are no longer really supporting Trump, there are still tens if millions of Trump supporters, most of whom are pretty normal people.  Rhetoric like this is only fanning the flames and making things worse.

I agree. lumping all Trump supporters with the crazies who stormed the capitol is dangerous and wrong. A future Republican president could easily criminalize all of Biden's supporters as Antifa sympathizers.

No, no one could not. Antifa despises the Democratic party, I'm included, as much as they do Trump and the Republicans. Trump's supporters meanwhile have cuddled and condoned Trump despite every single day of The Last 5 Years demonstrating loud and clear in our faces his fundamental in complete emotional, mental, and moral stability ever be even considered as president of the United States.

Come on people. It's not like what happened yesterday given everything about Trump was remotely a surprise. His voters can't begin to claim this was unforeseeable. Well, other than to the Capitol police force, of course.

Then should we blame all Black Lives Matter supporters for the rioting that happened last summer? If your answer is no, then why should we blame every Trump voter for the riots.

Because, and I can’t stress this enough, DONALD TRUMP INCITED THE RIOT.
Every one of you is at least partly culpable, more so if you are pulling this both sides crap now.

Stop this rhetorical excess. Many, many Trump supporters are utterly embarassed at what has happened, IRL and on forum.
The rhetoric of you and the lot is looking increasingly unhinged, increasingly hyper-partisan (if that is someone possible), and detached from democratic norms.

Trump voters need to demonstrate change. This was absolutely, unquestionably, patently foreseeable for the last five years. And yet Trump supporters still chose this man is president. Objecting to a forest fire after supporting the guy pouring gasoline on campfires for 5 years isn't close to enough. And there's nothing "partisan" about it.

If Trump voters don't realize they made a huge mistake, and can't acknowledge that yes, they damn well should have voted for Hillary or at least a third-party / write in, then yes they deserve every bit of approbation they're receiving.

[Badger]

Many, many Trump supporters are utterly embarassed at what has happened, IRL and on forum.

Sure, but the question therefore is; are they still Trump supporters?  The answer to that will tell us all we need to know.

No, even that doesn't go far enough. It's easy for these profile in Courage last-minute converts to democracy to reject Trump in the last week and a half of his presidency when he is irrelevant towards conservatives maintaining political power and advancing their agenda. If they don't oppose Trump ISM, which encompasses all those jackass congressmen, Senators, Governors, and hundreds of assorted Republican officials who full bore stood by and parotid Trump's Fantastical claims of election fraud and incitements for Direct action.

If they can't bring themselves to throw out those individuals for at bare minimum a sane Republican like Nancy Mays, Mitt Romney, John Kasich, Etc, or if not then bite the bullet and vote Democrat or third-party, then they've demonstrated they really don't give a crap. Between conservatism and democracy, they will choose the former every time.

[Badger]

Many, many Trump supporters are utterly embarassed at what has happened, IRL and on forum.

Sure, but the question therefore is; are they still Trump supporters.  The answer to that will tell us all we need to know.

No it doesn't.

Yes it does.

And yes, I am a partisan. I am not ashamed that l’m not interested in insurrectionaries feelings and I don’t believe that they should have any part in government, just like I don’t think Nazis and Confederates need to be given sympathetic hearings. As a liberal and westerner and an American and a Catholic and a humanist, I abhor secessionists, Nazis, Stalinists, Japanese Imperialists, Hinduvataists, Maoists, and Trumpists. And if they are still supporting Donald Trump, I don’t care how embarrassed they are.
They attempted to murder our political leadership and install an authoritarian strongman.
Any response in the aftermath other than ‘I didn’t know what I was doing, I disavow all previous support for these monsters, and I beg the American people for forgiveness’ is unacceptable.
Everyone who voted or otherwise campaigned or advocated for Mr. Trump or any of the congressmen who attempted to override free elections is culpable. Everyone who went around spreading both sides are just as bad, they don’t really mean it memery is culpable. And everyone who now engages in exercises to minimize this, see witch hunts or what about BLM, is culpable. Self examination is the only morally correct response.

This! Very very well said!

And frankly, any Republican that doesn't fully agree and take the same hard self-examination you have, is just blowing hot air.

Don't care much if it all about the whole I Told You So and public Contrition part. We as Americans need the Republican party as a whole to fundamentally change at its core level or this ship will happen again quite soon in our future. And unless Republicans take LV sunscreens exactly here, it won't.

And unfortunately, I don't predict it will.

[Badger]

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1347614091498557440

Hot take. In the last day or two of his presidency, Trump will pardon a number of these defendants.