What would Atlas be like if it existed in the past?

[Sumner 1868]

Al From Is King Non Swing Voter YaBB God ★★★★★ Posts: 23561

Re: Virginia gubernatorial thread « on October 27, 1989, 5:05:21 pm »I can't believe some posters actually think Wilder will win Southwest Virginia just because DUKAKIS COUNTIES! POPULIST COAL STRIKE! As someone who actually lives in this state, I can say with absolute certainty these hicks will never vote for a black man period.

Coal Miners Will Save Wilder IceSpear    YaBB God ★★★★★ Posts: 5592

Re: Virginia gubernatorial thread « on: October 27, 1989 at 5:12:34 pm » Some maroon avatar posters on the 1992 board are already saying that Wilder would win racist hick Mecca WV because of populist UMWA members. Meanwhile, they insist Wilder won't win Prince William County because of "stubborn suburbs." If Coleman polls less than 60% in Dickenson County I'll leave Atlas.

[Sumner 1868]

bronz bronz YaBB God ★★★★★ Posts: 14,195

Do you think most slaves favor the horrors of St. Domingo against whites? « on: September 14, 1859 at 011:32:01 am » I heard a Democrat say this at a saloon recently. Would you say it's accurate?

bronz bronz YaBB God ★★★★★ Posts: 14,195

Are slaveowners bad people? « on: October 27, 1859 at 01:32:03 pm » I do not own slaves and have never meet anyone who does, but I don't think they are all bad people like blue avatar posters say.

bronz bronz YaBB God ★★★★★ Posts: 14,195

Could a Henry Clay candidate win today? « on: November 2, 1859 at 05:21:43 pm » I think so. Most voters in states like IL, OH and PA want internal improvements and a compromise on slavery.

bronz bronz YaBB God ★★★★★ Posts: 14,195

Should Catholic immigration be banned? « on: November 25, 1859 at 02:01:58 pm » A lot of old Whigs think so.

bronz bronz YaBB God ★★★★★ Posts: 14,195

Should Negroes be allowed to homestead? « on: December 5, 1859 at 09:45:38 pm » Republicans have been dodging this question.

bronz bronz YaBB God ★★★★★ Posts: 14,195

Should John Brown's birthday be a holiday? « on: December 12, 1859 at 09:12:07 pm » Many abolitionists would favor this.

[Sumner 1868]

Fuzzy Bear Fuzzy Bear YaBB God ★★★★★ Posts: 12,245

Federal standoff in Montana « on: March 28, 1996 at 01:39:25 pm » These freemen in Montana make me sick. They hole themselves up in their "compounds," refuse to pay taxes and expect to be treated like heroes. I have no problem with their being forcefully removed from the "compound." They are clearly breaking the law with the fraud charges not to mention the fact that they refuse to pay taxes. Paying taxes is part of living in this country, and we may not enjoy paying them but it is our duty. We enjoy many things in this country that we wouldn't be able to without paying taxes. We have paved roads, schools for our children, city and national parks. I for one am willing to pay taxes to enjoy these things. If the freemen and other groups like them have a problem with this country they should just try to live somewhere like China and then they can see just how great America is.

Yellowhamer Yellowhamer YaBB God ★★★★★ Posts: 1,195

Federal standoff in Montana « on: March 28, 1996 at 01:42:24 pm » I can fully understand why the "freemen" in Montana are doing what they are. This country is in such a mess that the working man can only be angry when it comes to the federal government. The Freemen have the right idea, and I think we'll see more situations like this in the years to come. They aren't about religious cults, but rather revolting against the ridiculous ways our country is managed. My prediction is in 10-20 years, we'll have a national revolution on our hands, and no one will be able to stop it.

James Monroe James Monroe YaBB God ★★★★★ Posts: 8,470

Federal standoff in Montana « on: March 28, 1996 at 01:52:09 pm » Concerning the standoff in Jordan, Montana, between the loony right-wingers and the authorities -- well, if the FBI and the government are so keen to avoid a Ruby Ridge-Waco-style shoot-out, then why not simply contact the Strategic Air Command and have a few B52s fly over and pound the place flat. End of problem. No risk. These people are highly dangerous, they represent a clear and present danger to society (which they reject membership of), and have no rights. Kill them. Easy. I don't know why the authorities are acting as if they're scared of a bunch of no-neck rural Nazis.

Beet Beet YaBB God ★★★★★ Posts: 16,475

Federal standoff in Montana « on: March 28, 1996 at 01:54:15 pm » The use of skilled negotiators in barricaded positions has been the goal of the FBI and law enforcement since Attica in 1971. The FBI has had success in the gathering of intelligence, criminal investigations, and been successful in the prosecution of subversive groups. Unfortunately, the perception of the FBI in recent high profile cases (Dividians and Ruby Ridge) has been questionable uses of tactics. It appears a change in tactics has been implemented reflecting recent worse-case outcomes. With current technologies in media, state and local resolution pressures, interagency jurisdictions, and no injury arrest goals that the FBI, U.S. Marshal's, et. al. have as goals, it is surprising that anyone could resolve these barricaded fringe incidents. The concern in Montana appears to be the concern for every successful resolution of theses cases and that is to try to control escalation of an incident into a violent forceful confrontation. Once violence , or force, is used by either side the situation changes from negotiation to "best tactics" resolution to prevent more force from being used. The recent publicity that militant groups have gleaned has been their advocating, and using, violence (deadly force) to implement their will over others (i.e. local, state, and federal authorities including communities). These groups have used terror tactics on the local populace in Montana. It would appear then that the FBI will use whatever means available to peacefully resolve this incident which is the goal. Time is the most favored tool for peaceful resolution and the public should not expect anything else.

New Hampshire Angry Women Love Slick Willie! IndyRep YaBB God ★★★★★ Posts: 10,521

Federal standoff in Montana « on: March 28, 1996 at 01:55:00 pm » I am in Montana and know a little of what led up to this. The FBI needed to get involved because this Freeman group has shown a total disregard for local law enforcement. Local officers could do nothing with them, including traffic stops. These groups would not stop for law enforcement and would go to a fellow Freeman's house for help and the officers could do nothing without enticing a gunfight. I believe that the FBI is doing an excellent job avoiding another Ruby Ridge and Waco. In both the Ruby Ridge and Waco situations the Government may have acted instead of reacted to the situation. Right now the FBI is just playing a waiting game and if something does happen I think that the Freeman will instigate and not the FBI. If this turns into a big gunfight it will be compared to Ruby Ridge and Waco with the difference being that the FBI will react and provoke it. The standoff will last until this group gives up or they force the government to take action. I don't think that the FBI will do anything but wait. We believe this group is heavily armed and will not give up without a fight.

Mr. Reactionary Mr. ReactionaryYaBB God ★★★★★ Posts: 7,421

Federal standoff in Montana « on: March 28, 1996 at 01:55:45 pm » It's a shame that the US Government has grown in its size and level of intrusion into the lives of its citizens to the point that some wish to break away. The Waco and Ruby Ridge incidents further underscore (1) power corrupts: the Federal government is too powerful for it to effectively serve its citizens: it wants to rule them. And (2) the U.S. government will do anything it thinks it can get away with. And in reality, hasn't the government gotten away with murder in Waco and Ruby Ridge? What has happened since then? Has the Congress placed restrictions on federal authorities? What has been done to not allow the government to do the same again? I suggest that nothing of consequence has been done, and that if the U.S. government won't limit its own power, the People will.

Ghost of Ruin Runeghost ★★★★★ Posts: 5,421

Federal standoff in Montana « on: March 28, 1996 at 01:56:24 pm » I find the actions of the "Freemen" to be repugnant and offensive. They chose to live in a "free" and "democratic" country, however, they refuse to abide by the laws that protect them, they refuse to pay the taxes that pay for the roads they drive on, the telephone lines they communicate with, the post office they utilize. Most ignobly, they dishonor the Constitution they claim to protect and under which they claim rights and privileges. Our founding fathers did not intend that lawlessness would rule this country. And as far as I'm concerned, should they be found guilty, they deserve whatever punishment a court of law may determine. And it is that same Constitution which keeps they themselves from being hanged by the neck at a local bridge by a jury of their peers.

Uncle Pat Is Gonna Win! ChairmanSanchez ★★★★★ Posts: 19,014

Federal standoff in Montana « on: March 28, 1996 at 01:58:04 pm » The freeman have a right to their opinions about our government, as does every American. They can protest legally, vote or nominate candidates of their choice to political office. They do not have the right to violate U.S. laws in their pursuits. If they break the law, they have to pay, as do we all. If they don't agree with the law, then they are free to lobby their representatives in government to have the laws they object to changed. If they are committed to their cause and believe it is just, they should be willing to wait a hundred years or more for the laws to be changed (other Americans have). The FBI is right in not trying to provoke the Freemen, but the longer these things take, the more dangerous they become. Rather than block roads and maintain a visible presence, I think the FBI and local law enforcement should leave they area and let the Freemen wonder where everybody went. The government should compensate the rightful owners of the house for their losses, holding the Freemen accountable for restitution. In a few weeks, the Freemen will begin circulating, and at that time, they should be arrested. They presence of the FBI is probably adding justification to the Freemen's cause, in their own little minds.

Old School Republican Computer89 ★★★★★ Posts: 8,045

Federal standoff in Montana « on: March 28, 1996 at 02:00:24 pm » Where do these people come from. It appears that there is nothing to do in Montana. If they hate the government so bad why don't they leave. Because the living conditions are the best in the world that's why. These are just jerks, and throw away the key when they lock them up.

Statilius the Epicurean Thersites ★★★★★ Posts: 5,303

Federal standoff in Montana « on: March 28, 1996 at 02:01:02 pm » It bothers me that we may see another Waco incident here, powered by the media's exploitation on conjecture and issues that, excite the public, yet really have nothing to do with the actual crime(s) committed. Let's stop letting the 6 O'clock news make our decisions for us. This is still a very touchy situation and should be treated as such, with understanding the facts and sound prudent application of the law.

Idaho Conservative BWPConservative ★★★★★ Posts: 11,215

Federal standoff in Montana « on: March 28, 1996 at 02:02:14 pm » I don't agree with the freemen perpetrating fraud, etc., but what is the federal government going to do when the whole country decides to pull away, which lots of people are talking about now? They can't kill us all. Secession again. Guess it will be another civil war, another anti-federal government war.

OC olawakandi ★★★★★ Posts: 25,215

Federal standoff in Montana « on: March 28, 1996 at 02:04:39 pm » I sure hope the FBI doesn't let this drag on to April 19. That date has a lot of significance to all these type groups, and if the FBI doesn't act before the 19th of April, those people held up on the farm may be forced to act to add their names to the list of all the unhappy things that have happened on the 19th.

_{See what I did?}

[Sumner 1868]

Would 1969!BRTD discuss the best ways to avoid Nixon precincts on the way to Woodstock?

BRTD Administradora ★★★★★ Posts: 60,019

Terrible news about Woodstock « on: August 8, 1969, 8:30:25 am » So I checked the NY election results again. Turns out the festival is being held in a county THAT VOTED FOR RICHARD NIXON BY THREE POINTS LAST NOVEMBER! If they had held it in Buffalo, I could have traveled through Canada and then only entered Humphrey precincts once I crossed the border near Niagara Falls. But no, the man wouldn't allow that. Not groovy! Ugh, I am so f[inks] mad! I really want to see this in person, but standing in a place of Tricky Dick loyalists would feel so dirty. I need to really think this one over.

[Sumner 1868]

bronz bronz YaBB God ★★★★★ Posts: 11,401

Can a compromise on slavery truly last? « on: March 7, 1820 at 05:41:03 pm » Of course, and many people are saying that Mr. Clay should be commended for his moderation with the Presidency once Monroe retires. Trading a slave state for a free state is the most sensible solution for our westward expansion and one I've long advocated. People who believe that slavery is a violation of natural rights will naturally associate with other opponents of slavery in free states. People who believe slavery is a necessary institution will naturally associate with other slavers in slave states. I don't understand why people could reasonably object. I do not own slaves myself, but I would get along with you regardless if you did or didn't. Slaveowner, abolitionist or moderate - I try to get along with everyone. The fact is that Americans like peaceful co-existence through segregation. They like living with people who share their view on slavery. The radicals complaining about this compromise should stop the shaming and accept this fact.