Who won the NBC debate?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Santorum, if only because Romney and Gingrich were absolutely awful and petty. That five minute exchange between the two on Freddie Mac irritated/bored me to no end.

Mitt dodged everything as usual, but the laughs he got when he said "self-deportation" were comical.

The concept makes a lot of sense. I have espoused it for the better part of five years as being the best way to deal with illegal immigration, rather then rounding people up or giving people who have broken the law in a serial fashion (Props to Santorum for pointing this out) a free pass and encouraging the next wave to come. I would have to say that the real winner of this debate was the immigration issue. Because for the first time we had an honest discussion that we should have been having all along. The only reason people laughed is because they have it engrained in their heards that the only two options are McCain/Kennedy/Obama/Bush or the Tancredo Hitler style racist approach. With a debate of four, two of whom are Romney and Santorum, the discussion has improved greatly on this issue. There is no McCain/Giuliani and there is no Tancredo. With Perry gone, there is no more talk of a Chuck Norris employment plan (Ranger Recon Teams) or bashing Romney for not racially profilling his lawn care workers. Get used to the term "Self-deportation". 


I think Romney's position of pro-legal immigration and embracing Newt's military only concept of a Dream Act, while still being firm in border security and internal enforcement (E-Verify) is a solid and well thoughtout stance, contrary to what certain Gingrich supporters claimed a few months back. And one that is still very much electable and not that desirous on Hispanic support (I can easily see Romney still getting a sufficient 39-41%, even with this position depending on the campaign being run and proper amount of definition and nuance being firmly established by Romney). Romney also appeared to articulate a path to legalization, that also included touchback or leaving the country and getting at the back of the line (The only way I would support a legalization plan). This explanation helps clarify what Romney meant in December 2007 on Meet The Press. Touchback solves the "Serial Amnesty" problem of creating the next wave) and is completely consistent with opposing Amnesty. Another alleged Romney flip flop can be tossed in the trash, though none of the Anti-Mittens people will notice or care. The question about supporting English as a national language while still campaigning in local languages was well articulated by Gingrich as to why that isn't hypocrisy. Unlike 2008, when that question was butchered and used as a way to bash Romney and others who were doing that. Ron Paul also had a good point about how Florida should have the right to do it's ballots however it wants regardless of what the feds do.

I think Santorum did the best overall. Romney and Newt kind of hit each other into a draw (versus each other) and put each other into second place to Rick with that beginning interaction. Ron Paul had some good points as usuall. However, if Mitt Romney wants to win Florida he has to do better though. He needs to win the next debate.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Santorum, if only because Romney and Gingrich were absolutely awful and petty. That five minute exchange between the two on Freddie Mac irritated/bored me to no end.

Mitt dodged everything as usual, but the laughs he got when he said "self-deportation" were comical.

The concept makes a lot of sense. I have espoused it for the better part of five years as being the best way to deal with illegal immigration, rather then rounding people up or giving people who have broken the law in a serial fashion (Props to Santorum for pointing this out) a free pass and encouraging the next wave to come. I would have to say that the real winner of this debate was the immigration issue. Because for the first time we had an honest discussion that we should have been having all along. The only reason people laughed is because they have it engrained in their heards that the only two options are McCain/Kennedy/Obama/Bush or the Tancredo Hitler style racist approach. With a debate of four, two of whom are Romney and Santorum, the discussion has improved greatly on this issue. There is no McCain/Giuliani and there is no Tancredo. With Perry gone, there is no more talk of a Chuck Norris employment plan (Ranger Recon Teams) or bashing Romney for not racially profilling his lawn care workers. Get used to the term "Self-deportation". 


I think Romney's position of pro-legal immigration and embracing Newt's military only concept of a Dream Act, while still being firm in border security and internal enforcement (E-Verify) is a solid and well thoughtout stance, contrary to what certain Gingrich supporters claimed a few months back. And one that is still very much electable and not that desirous on Hispanic support (I can easily see Romney still getting a sufficient 39-41%, even with this position depending on the campaign being run and proper amount of definition and nuance being firmly established by Romney). Romney also appeared to articulate a path to legalization, that also included touchback or leaving the country and getting at the back of the line (The only way I would support a legalization plan). This explanation helps clarify what Romney meant in December 2007 on Meet The Press. Touchback solves the "Serial Amnesty" problem of creating the next wave) and is completely consistent with opposing Amnesty. Another alleged Romney flip flop can be tossed in the trash, though none of the Anti-Mittens people will notice or care. The question about supporting English as a national language while still campaigning in local languages was well articulated by Gingrich as to why that isn't hypocrisy. Unlike 2008, when that question was butchered and used as a way to bash Romney and others who were doing that. Ron Paul also had a good point about how Florida should have the right to do it's ballots however it wants regardless of what the feds do.

I think Santorum did the best overall. Romney and Newt kind of hit each other into a draw (versus each other) and put each other into second place to Rick with that beginning interaction. Ron Paul had some good points as usuall. However, if Mitt Romney wants to win Florida he has to do better though. He needs to win the next debate.

I agree with you on the matter, but there were nevertheless a number of people who laughed at the debate when he said it.

It is because they don't understand it. They think it is some kind of voluntary system which would be ludicrous. No one would voluntarily leave without incentives. We have seen the economic collapse provide it's own incentive and thus this has already happened in many sectors. Using E-verify, you spread that to all sectors. The thing about doing it at the federal level is that you can put in place a Guest Worker program and combined with a "Touchback style legalization plan" (legalize for a short time then require them to leave and get at the back of the line.), you can create a transition that doesn't leave you in a GA/SC/AL situation of economic ruin for lack of workers for several years.

If we had more debates like this on the issue, with more depth on the specifics, people wouldn't be laughing at the idea, they would be too busy thinking.