DC Unrest Megathread

[Alcibiades]

Apparently they’re inside the Senate Building.

Unbelievable how they’ve been allowed to gain entry into what should be one of the highest-security places in America, full of prime targets for assassination among crazies.

[Alcibiades]

I suppose this is a fitting end to the Trump presidency.

Absolutely disgusting.

[Alcibiades]

I hope Ted Cruz is proud of himself now.

[Alcibiades]

American carnage.

[Alcibiades]

The objectors are just as much to blame here as Trump. I really hope they suffer the consequences for their actions, bur I’m not too optimistic.

[Alcibiades]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1346928882595885058?ref_src=twsrc%5Eg...

This is just disgusting, but nothing I wouldn’t expect from this man.

[Alcibiades]

Mitt Romney blames Ted Cruz for this.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/01/trump-supporters-storm-the-us-capitol-washington-dc

Staffers and members of Congress took cover as chaos broke out on the House floor, with Senator Mitt Romney reportedly yelling, “This is what you’ve gotten,” to his colleagues including Senator Ted Cruz, a vocal supporter of Trump’s crusade to delegitimize Joe Biden’s victory.

Romney is 100% correct.

[Alcibiades]

I happen to think there are a lot of things wrong with the American government, but the idea that we should cheer on the destruction of a uniquely long-lived cycle of representative government is deeply troubling. Yes the capital is "just a building" in the same way the constitution is "just some words on paper"; it represents democracy and the rule of law. The fact that these oafs choose the day that body does its ceremonial ratification of the democratic choice of american people to push their way in is worth a hundred Minneapolis police precinct outfits.

You’ve put it much better than I could, but I’ll just add that the “it’s just a building” argument is especially inane because the mob chose to attack this specific building because of what it represents.

[Alcibiades]

As awful as this is, the silver lining might be the permanent delegitimisation of MAGA in all but the craziest of corners (admittedly still quite large corners).

Also, Cruz and Hawley are finished after this. Most of their GOP colleagues (including McConnell) already hated them for their pathetic little stunt, and I can only imagine what they feel now that they’ve put their lives in danger.

[Alcibiades]

What’s the latest on the police response? Are they finally getting a grip? Have the National Guard arrived?

[Alcibiades]

Sergeant at Arms says the Capitol is secure and certification will soon resume.

If Hawley or Cruz or any of those other little s—ts still object after this...

I’d just think long and hard if I were them. Their party has already been ripped to shreds over this. How much deeper do they want to dig their own graves?

You know they’ll object.

We’ll see. Morally of course they’ll have no qualms, but in terms of career advancement, this is not no longer necessarily the best option for them.

[Alcibiades]

Many left-wing twitter users are saying it's the real face of America.
They consider it as the worst country ever in the history of mankind.
Their solution is f America to be dismantled, forgotten, erased forever.

https://twitter.com/Tinashe/status/1346945438939680770

Some leftifts’ hatred for the country is distressing

Silence Republican.

This country is broken and only by acknowledging it is anything going to change.

No, I’m not a Republican but I still love my country and recognize the need for change. These people see the country as a lost cause and have no loyalty to it.

Denying that this is the real America is denying that deep systematic change is needed. Otherwise it is in fact a lost cause.

Biden is right, this is not what America is. The idea that this is who we are is akin to giving up

Biden does not deserve to be president then. He will not be getting my vote as he's making it crystal clear he has no intention of changing anything. He chooses to live in the fantasy world centrists have crafted where all is good and the system works only a few people are causing all the trouble. I will not put my support behind that sort of willful ignorance.

So give in to the MAGA terrorists then? Their goal is to destroy the American republic and its democracy.

[Alcibiades]

Keep the anti Christian rhetoric out of it.

Amen.  The incoming President who represents an alternative to President Trump is a Christian, as is one of the newly elected Democratic Senator who helped flip the Senate.

Not to mention, TENS of MILLIONS of law-abiding Americans who are sitting at home horrified by this, among them tens of millions of Democrats, liberals and Joe Biden voters.  Classless to take it there.

Yes, Christians as a whole should of course not be blamed. The Trumpist Religious Right should for being one of his biggest enablers.

[Alcibiades]

It would probably be a good idea for Biden to scrap the outdoor swearing-in ceremony and just do it in the WH.

I posted a picture of the inaugural platform on fire but nobody responded, Idek if they'd be able to do it outside at this point.

That tweet was from an hour ago, if it had actually burned down I think it would be all over the news, but I’m not seeing anything.

[Alcibiades]

Trump simply has to get removed from office one way or another now before his term is up. No ifs, no buts.

[Alcibiades]

If the 25th was invoked? That makes Pence president for 14 days?

Much better than Trump for just two weeks. Trump has completely lost it, and who knows what crazy sh-t he might try to pull in his final days in office? Pence, as grotesque as he is, will not be able to harm the Republic in 14 days.

[Alcibiades]

Absolutely shameful that they still objected after all this. Really not a good look to all but the die-hard MAGA fans.

[Alcibiades]

After tonight, Trump, Cruz, Hawley and the rest of his fans in Congress have blood on their hands, as well as being accessory to an attempt to overthrow the American Republic. If they had any decency, they would now be grovelling to be allowed to walk free, let alone to resume a role in public life.

[Alcibiades]

https://mobile.twitter.com/MichaelGarofola/status/1347084222561882113

We don’t need hearings to know that Trump, Cruz, Hawley and all of the objectors bear responsibility for this and have partaken in an act of treason.

However, there should be an inquiry into the security failings and how law enforcement allowed the insurrectionists to easily penetrate what ought to be one of the most secure buildings in the world.

[Alcibiades]

So the other dude in the pelts was a son of a Brooklyn Judge:

https://gothamist.com/news/trump-fur-ever-costumed-capitol-rioter-son-brooklyn-supreme-court-judge

The woman shot owned a pool supply business, we’ve had CEO of regional firms, business owners, and professionals caught out as members of the mob, Andy Harris, the numb nuts congressmen that got into a first fight in floor was an anesthesiologist.

These people are Muscadins not San-culottes no matter how much some is trying to make them the enraged voice of the white working class, the great mass of these people are from the relatively privileged classes.

The Trump base has always been small business owners - the low education, high income crowd.

[Alcibiades]

This.

Parliamentary privilege isn't some airy fairy thing. It's an importany underpinning of our democracy. Indeed it was a vital part of ensuring the United Kingdom shifted to a democratic government.

From the Parliament of Canada:

Members must be able to fulfill their parliamentary duties without undue obstruction, interference or intimidation.

Incidents involving physical assault or physical obstruction (such as traffic barriers, security cordons and demonstrations) have been interpreted as impeding members’ access to the parliamentary precinct or blocking their free movement within the precinct.

Interfering with the right of our lawfully elected officials to take their seat in the legislature with impunity undermines this crucial right.

Except no one is stopping them from getting inside the chamber? Just don't bring anything illegal inside and you'll be fine.

I know Canadian rules wouldn't apply in the US, but it does not seem to me like a metal detector is an "undue obstruction" to voting in Congress.

Like I said before, unless you are one the police guarding the Capitol from intruders, why would you need a gun inside anyways? Especially if you are an elected official, why would you want to bring a gun or another dangerous metallic thing with you?

You're framing the issue backwards, which gets to the root of what Averroes and that other poster were arguing about.

The discussion of "just don't bring X in" or "why do you need a gun anyways" is besides the point. The point of Parliamentary Privilege (among other things) is that elected officials don't need to justify themselves to anyone to take their seats the legislature. I can't vouch for the specifics of the American rules vs Canadian ones, but it predates the American Revolution going back to the 1600's in the British system, and therefore presumably carried over.

Further, holding up members of Congress has been justified on the grounds that certain (Republican) members of Congress themselves are security risks*. This is bad faith partisanship at it's worst. If members of Congress seriously have to fear for their safety, or god forbid, their lives, from other members of Congress, the House and Senate need to take steps far more serious than than this security theatre... but of course they aren't taking those steps, which suggests that the alleged threat is malarkey.

In short:

1) Obstructions to members taking their seats need to be justified to members, not the other way around.

2) Any reasonable justification for the metal detectors holding up those Representatives would also imply that said Representatives need to be expelled from the House/Senate and/or arrested.

3) Since we are not taking these steps, Congresspeople ought to be exempted from these security measures.

*I know you didn't argue this, but I was going to post about it anyway, so I included it here.

I think that tack50 covered most of the important points in his response, but just a few things I would like to add. As he mentioned, ejecting members from the chamber for a breach of parliamentary decorum is definitely a thing; you could argue that Boebert et al. throwing a hissy fit at security staff is a far more serious example of such than calling your political rival a childish insult. Parliamentary privilege is there to protect members from the likes of being charged with slander for their speech on the floor, not carrying an offensive weapon or noncompliance with security measures. As for the metal detectors in particular, I would presume that members of Congress have to show some sort of ID to get to the chamber. In light of recent events, why should they not be subject to another reasonable security measure?