Bush's records

[The Dowager Mod]

anyone else find this hilarious?

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I've had to work with old microfilm, and unless it's been kept in perfect conditions, it becomes very brittle or gooey (depending upon the film stock used), so while potentially suspicious, the accidental destruction of what would have been at the time unimportant microfilm records in 1996-1997 would not be implausible.  They were presumbly trying to salvage deteriorating microfilms and the ones that were too badly damaged to be easily salvaged , they skipped as being unimportant, since who would be interested in them anyway?

What I find more troubling is that took as long as it did for them to either find out or admit to the fact that the records had been destroyed. That points more to bureaucratic incompetence than political shenanigans, tho.  In any case, only those who are already anti-Bush fanatics are likely to worry about this

[agcatter]

No one gives a sh**t.  However, maybe Michael Moore can build another "documentary" about it.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

What I find more troubling is that took as long as it did for them to either find out or admit to the fact that the records had been destroyed.

The government produces and handles soooooooo much information, it is virtually impossible to track every piece, especially the old stuff.  

The important fact is that the mishap happened during a Democratic administration, so no one can make the case they were intentionally destroyed.

W received an honorable discharge from the military.  Therefore his commanding officers at the time must have thought he completed his service.

It amazes me that John Kerry, himself a veteran, would accuse, without any proof, not only Bush of wrongdoing, but also the commanding officers who signed Bush's honorable release.

If Kerry was still in the military, he would be hauled before the JAG for making such baseless allegations.

[MarkDel]

anyone else find this hilarious?

Texasgurl,

If you had anyone in your family who served in the military in the 1960's or 1970's, you would know that there was a massive fire which destroyed a large quantity of the military records from those eras. When my father retired at age 65, he had a horrible time getting his social security benefits done properly because the government claimed the records from that era had been destroyed in a fire. If he had not kept some of his own records and remembered his ID number from the Army, they would have had a hard time verifying his service. Go talk to someone who was in the Army and recently retired, they'll confirm this.

[Chris]

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Kerry has never admitted anything like that. Obviously you confuse Sen. John Kerry and Sen. Bob Kerrey.

[ATFFL]

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Kerry has never admitted anything like that. Obviously you confuse Sen. John Kerry and Sen. Bob Kerrey.

Listen to this:

http://www.streamload.com/jmstein77/Kerry2.mp3


I love how he tries to sound like another JFK.

[Chris]

If you believe this proves Kerry committed war crimes, then you obviously have a general problem with the Vietnam war, and then thousands of US soldiers are war criminals. "Free fire zones", "search & destroy missions" (etc.) are hardly Kerry's personal invention, they were part of an official strategy and a result of official orders. I guess what Kerry tells us here is that he now considers these "strategies" as morally reprehensible, while they were perfectly legal and admissible according to the standards of the US military & the government at that time.

This audio clip leaves out an important part of the statement. The fact that it was cut off in the middle of a sentence speaks volumes...It seems it was deliberately taken out of context for propaganda purposes:

---


"There are all kinds of atrocities, and I would have to say that, yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed in that I took part in shootings in free fire zones. I conducted harassment and interdiction fire. I used 50 calibre machine guns, which we were granted and ordered to use, which were our only weapon against people. I took part in search and destroy missions, in the burning of villages. All of this is contrary to the laws of warfare, all of this is contrary to the Geneva Conventions

--- END OF CLIP

and all of this is ordered as a matter of written established policy by the government of the United States from the top down. And I believe that the men who designed these, the men who designed the free fire zone, the men who ordered us, the men who signed off the air raid strike areas, I think these men, by the letter of the law, the same letter of the law that tried Lieutenant Calley, are war criminals."

[ATFFL]

Ah, the "I was only following orders defense."  Worked so well for others.

Fact is he says he did them.  Either he was lying or he confessed to war crimes, neither is a good thing for a Presidential candidate to have in his past.

I think he was lying, but he has a record to defend on the matter, and it will not be pretty if it used against him.

[Chris]

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You seem to be a little obtuse. That's not what he says. Again: What tens of thousands of US soldiers did was a result of the official policy of the US government, and nothing illegal. But, looking back to his time, Kerry believes it was morally reprehensible, and he's not proud of what he and others did.
I think it's highly interesting that you accuse a large proportion of the Vietnam Vets, essentially all who took part in these operations, of war crimes. That's not what you usually hear from Republicans. Well, any suggestions what should happen to these "criminals"? Military tribunals perhaps?

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What is "them"? He's not talking about war crimes, he's talking about perfectly legal, but questionable military strategies. In the part that you (or whoever cut this audio clip) left out, he explains who the real war criminals are...

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He did not confess to war crimes (see above), that's a product of your imagination. Nor is he lying. Morally questionable acts, yes, but nothing illegal.

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And I think you're plain wrong.

[ATFFL]

He says it is "contrary to the laws of warfare" and to the Geneva Conventions.  There is a simpler term for that: War Crimes.  He is not saying he did perfectly legal but morally reprehensible acts, he says they were both illegal and morally reprehensible.  His words, not mine.

[12th Doctor]

anyone else find this hilarious?

Texasgurl,

If you had anyone in your family who served in the military in the 1960's or 1970's, you would know that there was a massive fire which destroyed a large quantity of the military records from those eras. When my father retired at age 65, he had a horrible time getting his social security benefits done properly because the government claimed the records from that era had been destroyed in a fire. If he had not kept some of his own records and remembered his ID number from the Army, they would have had a hard time verifying his service. Go talk to someone who was in the Army and recently retired, they'll confirm this.

Good point, Mark.  That's why they had to come out with the "National Silver Star Registry" (of which my Grandfather is a recipient) because, the same fire destroyed almost all the records, of all the silver star recipients from WWI-Veitnam.

Of course the media won't bother to report that fact.

[Beet]

anyone else find this hilarious?

Texasgurl,

If you had anyone in your family who served in the military in the 1960's or 1970's, you would know that there was a massive fire which destroyed a large quantity of the military records from those eras. When my father retired at age 65, he had a horrible time getting his social security benefits done properly because the government claimed the records from that era had been destroyed in a fire. If he had not kept some of his own records and remembered his ID number from the Army, they would have had a hard time verifying his service. Go talk to someone who was in the Army and recently retired, they'll confirm this.

Good point, Mark.  That's why they had to come out with the "National Silver Star Registry" (of which my Grandfather is a recipient) because, the same fire destroyed all most all the records, or all the silver stat recipients from WWI-Veitnam.

Of course the media won't bother to report that fact.

Why weren't Kerry's records destroyed? Or McCain's? Or Max Cleland? This is the first story ever of anyone in politics or anything else that I've heard their records were destroyed. Not that they would contain many surprises anyway. So I guess its no loss.

Also- those of you who blame fire didn't read the story. The official Pentagon line was that they were destroyed in an internal "accident" while employees were trying to preserve them, in "1996 or 1997". LOL.

[12th Doctor]

anyone else find this hilarious?

Texasgurl,

If you had anyone in your family who served in the military in the 1960's or 1970's, you would know that there was a massive fire which destroyed a large quantity of the military records from those eras. When my father retired at age 65, he had a horrible time getting his social security benefits done properly because the government claimed the records from that era had been destroyed in a fire. If he had not kept some of his own records and remembered his ID number from the Army, they would have had a hard time verifying his service. Go talk to someone who was in the Army and recently retired, they'll confirm this.

Good point, Mark.  That's why they had to come out with the "National Silver Star Registry" (of which my Grandfather is a recipient) because, the same fire destroyed all most all the records, or all the silver stat recipients from WWI-Veitnam.

Of course the media won't bother to report that fact.

Why weren't Kerry's records destroyed? Or McCain's? Or Max Cleland? This is the first story ever of anyone in politics or anything else that I've heard their records were destroyed. Not that they would contain many surprises anyway. So I guess its no loss.

Also- those of you who blame fire didn't read the story. The official Pentagon line was that they were destroyed in an internal "accident" while employees were trying to preserve them, in "1996 or 1997". LOL.

Well, as soon as I saw that the story was from the BBC, I printed it out and used it to wipe my ass.

[Alfie]

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Why, for a moment, you sounded like Lady Macbeth, obsessed with the notion of blood on her hand.

"Out, damned spot!"

Sorry, your too-graphic description of the BBC won't clear the spot.  Sunshine is the ONLY disinfectant.

Indeed, as posted, why only Bush's records?  Why only his -- the man who has spent thirty years unsuccessfully "splaining" What Oh What, When Oh When, and Where Oh Where,  he served his (toot toot) nation.

Queer, isn't it?

- Alfie
wants to know; pretty certain he does.


- Alfie

[agcatter]

Very queer.

[Alfie]

Very queer.

Très

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Well, as soon as I saw that the story was from the BBC, I printed it out and used it to wipe my ass.

I always find it funny when people attack the BBC.

[ATFFL]

Well, as soon as I saw that the story was from the BBC, I printed it out and used it to wipe my ass.

I always find it funny when people attack the BBC.

The Beeb has gone downhill very quickly the past few years.  What once was a bastion of fair and inbiased reporting has become a venemous hate machine that will knowingly pusblish false stories.  They need a major editorial overhaul.

[Alfie]

Well, as soon as I saw that the story was from the BBC, I printed it out and used it to wipe my ass.

I always find it funny when people attack the BBC.

Funny "ha ha", or funny "peculiar"?


- Alfie
"This... is London"