Gays in the Military?

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I think, however, there should be strong penalties if they are found guilty of making sexual advances while on active duty to members of the same sex.

Even if the other person is clearly consenting?

Yes, if it is a unisex unit the purpose is to avoid sexual conduct, therefore, this shouldn't be circumvented by a homosexual love affair.

Yeah, but married couples are allowed to have sex in the military.  Why not gay couples?

It depends on the circumstance, if they are in a gender specific unit, they should not be having sex.

Well, that's really none of your business... so... yeah.  Who are you to decide who should be having sex with whom/what?

Oh yeah.. you're a 16 year old male fundie... what people do with their penis/anus/vagina occupies every moment of your existence.

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I have several friends in the military.  One of my best friends is in the Marines and he is married to another of my best friends.. he's served 2 tours in Iraq, the first during the battle in Fallujah where we was a grunt kicking in doors in the houses in the city.  He was injured by an IED while on a patrol in April 2005 and negligence from the military doctors have left him with a permanent disability in his ankles.  He actually got diagnosed by a civilian doctor and paid out of pocket for it as having fractures in his ankles.. and now he has had several surgeries and has extreme pain if he has to walk for more than, oh, 30 minutes at a time.

Another friend of mine joined the army, and he has served 2 lengthy tours in Iraq and he had plenty of "free time" to do whatever he wanted.

The other friend of mine joined the Navy... and he has basically spent his time on active duty telling southeast Asian strippers to spit out the colored ball of his choice out of their private parts.

If a gay man or a lesbian join the military, your discomfort is YOUR problem.  If that discomfort is so bad that you must act on it and do something to a gay member of the military, you should be dishonorably discharged and thrown in jail.

On the other hand, relationships with fellow troops that affects your ability to do what you're supposed to be doing should be assessed and you should be disciplined.

This isn't entirely comparable to the religion/race card because a Christian wouldn't necessarily get into an emotional relationship with another Christian based purely on religion and suffer the problems that comes with that if one of them were injured.

I can see where "don't ask/don't tell" is the easy way out... but off of the battle field there is no reason you should have to hide your sexuality.

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I have to say that, rare as it is, I think DWTL has something of a point here, even though he hasn't expressed it very well. That is, in combat units (indeed, in many civilian work-places) you're not allowed to have sexual relations because it may affect your judgement and the internal dynamic of the group. That wouldn't have anything to do with discrimination. But it would of course be a general rule, not necessarily linked to sexual orientation.

And, no, I have nothing against gays in the military.

What you made is a refined argument that makes sense based on what DWTL said.  DWTL made it sound like they simply shouldn't be having sex and that it is the government's business to know since it's on the government's dime.

Banning intimate relationships within your unit while on active duty as a way to keep the emotions of the soldiers in that unit from suffering any more than they already are makes sense.  Banning sex for the sake of banning sex does not.

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As Mikey said, there are multiple reasons why Don't Ask, Don't Tell should remain in place at the current time.  In general, I have no problems with Gays in the military, since they'll die for their country just as I would.  However, the social dynamic and unit cohesiveness currently requires gays to keep their life-style choice private.  Not only can it risk an overbearing since of doubt and mistrust with some service members, it can also put  the gay's life at risk if someone with an overwhelming homophobia feels threatened and acts out (which has happened in the past).

You have a point, but I must disagree that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice, but that is for another thread.

It is a very sad world we live in when gay people have to keep their sexuality a secret lest they offend a homophobe so much that the homophobe has to harm the gay person.

It really makes me sick that people seek to justify harming homosexuals with their homophobia.

Still any service member that harms another service member on the basis of sexuality should be dishonorably discharged as he/she is not fit to serve this country.

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This letter was in our newspaper today.  I thought it was excellent.

Letter:  Willing and able to serve should be only questions.

On Nov. 30, there were nearly 12,000 small American flags placed in honor in our nation’s capital. They do not denote heroism or being killed in combat. Each flag represents a military service member discharged under the current “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy.

I’ve heard all the popular arguments for and against homosexuality. I’m neither a theologian nor an educated man who spouts words like “blaspheme” or “life’s choice.” In my 58 years, I have committed a few sins, more than others, and have made some pretty stupid choices, neither determined my heterosexuality. My parents, both with faults, taught me, “You Are What You Are.”

When I was a young infantryman, I knew that the guys I served with were “Macho Heartbreakers, Life Takers.” As I progressed through my 20 years in uniform, I had the distinct privilege to serve with the finest men and women to ever take the oath. In dealing with both sexes, I realized I had a lot to learn.

Two of the greatest things I learned were sensitivity and compassion. Both have served me well, in uniform, as a loving husband and doting father. Anyone who has served at least one hitch in uniform has known at least one alcoholic, drug abuser and someone gay if one or the other had acknowledged it.

I have served with some fine enlisted and commissioned officers whom I suspected of being gay and a few who admitted openly to me. I could rely on these men and women to give and take orders and get the mission successfully completed. On numerous occasions, I have voted for convictions at a court martial of what we refer to in the Army as druggies, juicers and yes, even two gays. Their criminal behavior, nothing more, resulted in their convictions, the two gays were charged with crimes unrelated to their lifestyle.

Our military is stretched pretty thin right now. We are now accepting recruits with criminal histories while discharging proven soldiers whom openly admit being gay. So many of our vital occupations are under staffed due to this inane policy. So many patriotic Americans want to serve but are reluctant to.

Several retired admirals and generals have called upon the president and the secretary of Defense to review this policy. As I said before “You Are What You Are.”

Michael D. Monfrooe

Bemidji