This Once Great Movement Of Ours

[Blair]

It was also CWU who are affiliated; it seems so stupid to have a blanket policy. I mean do they expect to keep Labour MPs away from striking nurses and teachers in the winter?

The thing I don’t understand is that no-one in THIGMOO seems to be supporting the current stupid approach yet it has not changed- are we really going to get to December and still be talking about the magic money treee?

[Blair]

Why does the ‘foreign secretary’ of the left think the African Union or the League of Arab states is in any fit state to be a peace broker between Ukraine and Russia?

I have generally avoided relighting forever war mk.2 but stuff like this and his comments on A/S is why I have serious qualms about his suitability to be allowed in the PLP.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/02/jeremy-corbyn-urges-west-to-stop-arming-ukraine?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[CumbrianLefty]

The wing of politics he represents more generally seems to have a real problem with understanding that there can be such a thing as a simple war of aggression and conquest, and that such an episode is straightforwardly bad (without any qualifiers about "outside interference" or "underlying causes")

[YL]

The wing of politics he represents more generally seems to have a real problem with understanding that there can be such a thing as a simple war of aggression and conquest, and that such an episode is straightforwardly bad (without any qualifiers about "outside interference" or "underlying causes")

I think he'd see it if it were a Western power or ally doing it.

I used to think that I had a fair amount in common with left-wing "anti-war" movements, but I find the Putinophile tendencies many of them show completely incomprehensible.

[Pulaski]

I won't attempt to defend Corbyn as with his latest comments he seems to have delved into his annoying tendency to conflate "non-western" with "good," always a weak spot of his.

But I will say that you can look upon Russia's invasion of Ukraine as a clear act of unprovoked aggression and still have pragmatic concerns about Western governments forever arming Ukraine. One concern would be how much of the hardware you're supplying may ultimately end up in Russia's hands if they do conquer the country, like how much US equipment was left in Afghanistan for the Taliban (though I gather for complex reasons they might not get a huge advantage out of it). I'm not saying I don't think the West should arm Ukraine; just that there are some legit concerns there.

P.S. Does anyone else find Starmer's performance in PMQs very underwhelming? He seems to be unable to ad-lib or think flexibly and has to refer to his notes very often. I know as a Corbyn supporter I'm throwing stones in a big glass house, but I expect a lot more from a former barrister and DPP.

[CumbrianLefty]

Starmer's approach to PMQ's isn't terribly flexible, yes.

I would add though that, sometimes, it works *very* well indeed. Many of his best moments as leader have been when he has utterly eviscerated Johnson.

It will certainly be interesting to see how he deals with a new PM. A decent test for him.

[Pulaski]

Starmer's approach to PMQ's isn't terribly flexible, yes.

I would add though that, sometimes, it works *very* well indeed. Many of his best moments as leader have been when he has utterly eviscerated Johnson.

Which particular moments are you thinking of? Perhaps I haven't seen them.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Starmer's approach to PMQ's isn't terribly flexible, yes.

I would add though that, sometimes, it works *very* well indeed. Many of his best moments as leader have been when he has utterly eviscerated Johnson.

Which particular moments are you thinking of? Perhaps I haven't seen them.

Johnson's catastrophic performance in PMQs during the week of his Fall seem too have resulted pretty directly in a further collapse in confidence in his parliamentary party, and Starmer's straight-bad goading (is there such a thing? Apparently yes) contributed to that. A very strange episode as PMQs rarely matter much.

Anyway, as a barrister Starmer was one of the ones who makes sure that every little detail is just so and aims to win at the preparatory stage (and he was very good at this) rather than a courtroom performer as such. An example on the Labour frontbench of that style of barrister would be Thornberry, of course.

[Blair]

Starmer's approach to PMQ's isn't terribly flexible, yes.

I would add though that, sometimes, it works *very* well indeed. Many of his best moments as leader have been when he has utterly eviscerated Johnson.

Which particular moments are you thinking of? Perhaps I haven't seen them.

Johnson's catastrophic performance in PMQs during the week of his Fall seem too have resulted pretty directly in a further collapse in confidence in his parliamentary party, and Starmer's straight-bad goading (is there such a thing? Apparently yes) contributed to that. A very strange episode as PMQs rarely matter much.

Anyway, as a barrister Starmer was one of the ones who makes sure that every little detail is just so and aims to win at the preparatory stage (and he was very good at this) rather than a courtroom performer as such. An example on the Labour frontbench of that style of barrister would be Thornberry, of course.

I wonder if this is why his best performances have been when he spoke during the various debates about partygate- he got to speak (rather than question) for about 15 minutes and often shamed the Tory benches into silence. The one where he mentioned Fabricants constituency was particularly powerful- even to the extend that Politics Joe (who were mocking him v openly before) were giving it very high praise when they clipped it.

Another is that his speech got Boris so riled up that Boris used Rees Moggs cheap line about Saville- which ofc led to his long standing policy chief to quit and well the castle never really recovered.

[CumbrianLefty]

Times going big today on a non-story that Unite *might*, maybe, just possibly, consider disaffiliating from Labour next summer (by which time our political terrain could be pretty much unrecognisable in almost all respects)

Mainly notable though for the typically dickheaded pseudo-macho and tone deaf comments from the of course anonymous "Starmer sources"* - it really is time that we started naming these people; not just in this context but more generally - if you *really* believe stuff you should be on the record.

(*is this the same "Starmer source" who was quoted as saying "Starmer will sack everybody who has been on a picket line once he returns from holiday as a STRONG LEADER" earlier this week, only to be almost instantly contradicted by someone else who maybe really *is* close to him?)

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Based on past form I'm not entirely convinced that all of the 'Starmer allies' quoted in newspaper articles pushing this or that gossip story actually exist.

[Blair]

Compare and contrast with Mr Tony's festival of centrism & crypto summits.

The 71-year-old remains a workaholic, awake in his study at his home in Fife sometimes until the early hours. Many mornings, aides and shadow ministers will arrive at their desks to long and detailed emails, peppered with words in capital letters that most insist are “warm”, “helpful” and “kind” rather than simply “telling people what to do”.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/labour/2022/08/gordon-brown-keir-starmer-labour

I wonder if he would have stayed in the House longer if his seat wasn't at risk.

[Pulaski]

Based on past form I'm not entirely convinced that all of the 'Starmer allies' quoted in newspaper articles pushing this or that gossip story actually exist.

It brings to mind the inexplicable number of people who claim to be "close to the royal family."

[Blair]

If the private eye is where the actual royal sources go where is the Labour version?

I feel it use to be Stephen Bush at the NS… not sure who know.

On an aside with the exception of the recent scope is low quality political coverage the norm for the NS? I have only every really know it when it’s political team was broadly very good and I feel from 19-21 it was one of the best.

They know just seemed to have hired a lot of new people none of whom I feel I can justify paying £100 a year for.

[CumbrianLefty]

Rachel Wearmouth is one of the new people at the Staggers, isn't she?

Known as "Keirmouth" by some of her leftist detractors.

[JimJamUK]

Rachel Wearmouth is one of the new people at the Staggers, isn't she?

Known as "Keirmouth" by some of her leftist detractors.

Wasn’t she the one who claimed that Labour were closing in on the Tories in North Shropshire with the Lib Dems dead in the water?

[CumbrianLefty]

Well yes, she quoted supposed Labour "canvass returns" that purportedly showed this.

[Blair]

Reports Labour are doing something re cost of living.

I guess maybe they wanted to wait till conference (a furlough style energy scheme announced in KS speech would be good!) but would be too long and might get taken over by events e.g an emergency budget.

[CumbrianLefty]

Reports Labour are doing something re cost of living.

I guess maybe they wanted to wait till conference (a furlough style energy scheme announced in KS speech would be good!) but would be too long and might get taken over by events e.g an emergency budget.

LibDems trying to steal a march on this yesterday, as well.

I suppose those weekend reports indicate that the supposed "Labour sources" saying that they could use a Tory splurge on this to demonstrate the party's "responsible" approach to the economy (rather than the Truss "magic money tree") have lost the internal argument. Thank f***.

[cp]

Trans issues have become as much of a dividing line as the EU/anti-semitism were 16-19, perhaps more so as those issues have become less prominent. I wouldn’t be surprised if there were GC corbynites who backed Duffield, or indeed people to the right of her (since Duffield isn’t seen as on the right by the right) for the same reason. Whilst there will be plenty in the 65 who voted to trigger her who also backed Keir.

Agreed, not least because all three issues are cases where the British media (and chattering class more generally) have become utterly unhinged, bordering on disinformation, when reporting on the matter.

Why does the ‘foreign secretary’ of the left think the African Union or the League of Arab states is in any fit state to be a peace broker between Ukraine and Russia?

I have generally avoided relighting forever war mk.2 but stuff like this and his comments on A/S is why I have serious qualms about his suitability to be allowed in the PLP.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/02/jeremy-corbyn-urges-west-to-stop-arming-ukraine?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Serious qualms are often a result of harsh truths.

[Blair]

Todays Q- is Gordon Browns intervention some pitch rolling for next weeks announcement or was he just annoyed and trying to give them a kick up the backside?

It is a very good intervention- you can hear his voice and tone in it very clearly.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug/10/tax-profits-freeze-energy-prices-bring-suppliers-into-public-sector-gordon-brown?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[JimJamUK]

Regardless of whether you agree with Brown, I’m not sure sending out the guy that most people (wrongly) blame for the last financial crisis will do any good for Labour’s reputation on the economy.

[CumbrianLefty]

Brown has been significantly rehabilitated with many in recent years (not totally unlike Major)

There are reports that Starmer and other senior party figures are in contact with him fairly regularly.

[EastAnglianLefty]

The backbiting from Starmer's office tends to leak like a sieve. That we haven't heard rumours of "senior aides" calling Brown a deranged communist is probably an indication?

[Oryxslayer]

Regardless of whether you agree with Brown, I’m not sure sending out the guy that most people (wrongly) blame for the last financial crisis will do any good for Labour’s reputation on the economy.

Brown is actually the most popular living former PM right now....