Northern Regional Committee

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

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Article IV already provided for special elections to the Senate; this just tweaks it to fit cinyc's proposal.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

Here's what we have so far:

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continued in next post

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

continued from previous post

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[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Some proposals for a bill of rights/miscellaneous amendments

1. An amendment barring the secession of a state from the region
2. A ban on religious qualifications for office
3. The exemption of campaign money from free speech protections
4. A balanced budget amendment (this is what we had in the former Northeast, and it worked rather well)
5. An amendment to protect Northerners from compulsory military service (might conflict with federal law; I'm not sure)
6. An amendment guaranteeing equal marriage rights for gay and lesbian Northerners

Some of these amendments are obviously controversial, but I tried to make the effort to propose amendments that most of the committee members can get behind and that won't prevent the final Constitution from being ratified by the public.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Passing along a concern raised by citizen Poirot:

This is the amendment proposal:

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I have a question on the two thirds vote in the assembly. Exactly two thirds is enough, it's not more than two thirds. So if the assembly is 3 person, two Yes vote is enough ?

I think in a 5 person assembly in the NE we required at least three yes votes and two thirds to pass in case there is very low turnout. If there is 3 a person assembly, 1 yes, 1 abstain and 1 not voting is considered 100% approve. It's not a very high treshold for constituional change but I guess that is what small assembly can do.

Under a 3-person Assembly, amendments to the Constitution ought to be unanimous in the same way impeachments are.  We might want to fix that.

[cinyc]

Some proposals for a bill of rights/miscellaneous amendments

1. An amendment barring the secession of a state from the region
2. A ban on religious qualifications for office
3. The exemption of campaign money from free speech protections
4. A balanced budget amendment (this is what we had in the former Northeast, and it worked rather well)
5. An amendment to protect Northerners from compulsory military service (might conflict with federal law; I'm not sure)
6. An amendment guaranteeing equal marriage rights for gay and lesbian Northerners

Some of these amendments are obviously controversial, but I tried to make the effort to propose amendments that most of the committee members can get behind and that won't prevent the final Constitution from being ratified by the public.

I think the idea for the intial bill of rights is for it not to be controversial, and let the Assembly amend it later to include controversial matters one-by-one.  But that's up to the other members.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Thoughts/suggestions from other members, please?  I don't want the rest of this committee to be a back-and-forth between cinyc and myself when I don't even have power here.  Plus it would be nice if we could get this thing wrapped up so that we can have first elections by later this month...

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

I'm going to handle this the same way I did at the ConCon. Delegates have 24 hours to propose rights that they believe should be included in the Regional Constitution. At the end of said 24 hours, we will immediately proceed to a principle vote: all those rights endorsed by a majority of voting delegates will be included in the final document.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

i'll repropose all of scott's, if that's necessary

Some proposals for a bill of rights/miscellaneous amendments

1. An amendment barring the secession of a state from the region
2. A ban on religious qualifications for office
3. The exemption of campaign money from free speech protections
4. A balanced budget amendment (this is what we had in the former Northeast, and it worked rather well)
5. An amendment to protect Northerners from compulsory military service (might conflict with federal law; I'm not sure)
6. An amendment guaranteeing equal marriage rights for gay and lesbian Northerners

[cinyc]

I'd like a vote on all sections of Article V of the old Mideastern constitution separately.  It is the most complete bill of rights I have seen for a region.  Some rights might be controversial, so I'd prefer a one-on-one vote.

[Blair]

I'd oppose the fifth amendment

[Kingpoleon]

4, 5, 6, 7, 13, 19, and 22 need amended in my opinion. "Only in a manner consistent with the law" and all variations thereof is far too broad for the first four.

18 should not in the Constitution.

[Classic Conservative]

Doesn't the third admendment in which Scott propose contradict federal law?

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

Seeing no further debate, we will now proceed with a principle vote on the Bill of Rights. Please vote YES, NO, or Abstain on each of the following proposals. Those proposals supported by a majority of voting delegates will be included in the final draft of the Constitution. Voting will last 24 hours or until all delegates have voted.

PRINCIPLE VOTE on the BILL OF RIGHTS

Proposals
R001: Right to life, liberty, and property
R002: Right to equal protection under the law
R003: Prohibition of slavery, and of involuntary servitude except as punishment for crimes
R004: Right of all citizens to vote, except when revoked as punishment for crimes
R005: Freedom of speech, freedom of the press
R006: Exemption of campaign money from free speech protections
R007: Freedom of religion, freedom of worship
R008: Right to petition, peaceable assembly, and freedom of association
R009: Right of workers to organize, right to collective bargaining, except when in conflict with vital Regional interests
R010: Right to bear arms
R011: Prohibition against the seizure of private property without just compensation
R012: Right to privacy
R013: Right of all citizens to marry the person of their choosing regardless of gender
R014: The Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, except in times of war
R015: Prohibition of warrantless search and seizure
R016: Right of the accused to trial by jury, protection against retrial for the same crime, right to remain silent
R017: Right of the accused to be informed of the nature of the accusation, right to bring witnesses for their defense, right to the assistance of counsel
R018: Mandatory jury trial for all suits of common law where the value of the controversy exceeds $100
R019: Prohibition of the death penalty, except on indictment of a grand jury or in the military
R020: Prohibition of cruel or unusual punishment, excessive bail, and excessive fines
R021: Right of all minors to education, duty of the Region to maintain a public school system
R022: Prohibition against the passage of laws "harmful to the public wellbeing"
R023: Prohibition of military conscription, except in times of war
R024: Prohibition of quartering soldiers in private buildings w/o the owner's consent
R025: Prohibition on the use of the military for law enforcement, except in times of war or natural disaster
R026: Prohibition on requiring voters to denote their state of registration in the voting booth
R027: Prohibition against holding multiple offices
R028: Prohibition against religious qualifications for officeholding
R029: Prohibition against secession of constituent states
R030: Mandatory balanced budget
R031: Citizens retain all omitted natural rights

OFFICIAL BALLOT

R001     [  ] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R002     [  ] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R003     [  ] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R004     [  ] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R005     [  ] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R006     [  ] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R007     [  ] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R008     [  ] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R009     [  ] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R010     [  ] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R011     [  ] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R012     [  ] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R013     [  ] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R014     [  ] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R015     [  ] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R016     [  ] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R017     [  ] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R018     [  ] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R019     [  ] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R020     [  ] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R021     [  ] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R022     [  ] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R023     [  ] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R024     [  ] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R025     [  ] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R026     [  ] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R027     [  ] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R028     [  ] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R029     [  ] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R030     [  ] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R031     [  ] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

PRINCIPLE VOTE on the BILL OF RIGHTS

Proposals
R001: Right to life, liberty, and property
R002: Right to equal protection under the law
R003: Prohibition of slavery, and of involuntary servitude except as punishment for crimes
R004: Right of all citizens to vote, except when revoked as punishment for crimes
R005: Freedom of speech, freedom of the press
R006: Exemption of campaign money from free speech protections
R007: Freedom of religion, freedom of worship
R008: Right to petition, peaceable assembly, and freedom of association
R009: Right of workers to organize, right to collective bargaining, except when in conflict with vital Regional interests
R010: Right to bear arms
R011: Prohibition against the seizure of private property without just compensation
R012: Right to privacy
R013: Right of all citizens to marry the person of their choosing regardless of gender
R014: The Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, except in times of war
R015: Prohibition of warrantless search and seizure
R016: Right of the accused to trial by jury, protection against retrial for the same crime, right to remain silent
R017: Right of the accused to be informed of the nature of the accusation, right to bring witnesses for their defense, right to the assistance of counsel
R018: Mandatory jury trial for all suits of common law where the value of the controversy exceeds $100
R019: Prohibition of the death penalty, except on indictment of a grand jury or in the military
R020: Prohibition of cruel or unusual punishment, excessive bail, and excessive fines
R021: Right of all minors to education, duty of the Region to maintain a public school system
R022: Prohibition against the passage of laws "harmful to the public wellbeing"
R023: Prohibition of military conscription, except in times of war
R024: Prohibition of quartering soldiers in private buildings w/o the owner's consent
R025: Prohibition on the use of the military for law enforcement, except in times of war or natural disaster
R026: Prohibition on requiring voters to denote their state of registration in the voting booth
R027: Prohibition against holding multiple offices
R028: Prohibition against religious qualifications for officeholding
R029: Prohibition against secession of constituent states
R030: Mandatory balanced budget
R031: Citizens retain all omitted natural rights

OFFICIAL BALLOT

R001     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R002     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R003     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R004     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R005     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R006     [  ] YES   [X] NO   [  ] Abstain
R007     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R008     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R009     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R010     [  ] YES   [  ] NO   [X] Abstain
R011     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R012     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R013     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R014     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R015     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R016     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R017     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R018     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R019     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R020     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R021     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R022     [  ] YES   [X] NO   [  ] Abstain
R023     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R024     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R025     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R026     [  ] YES   [  ] NO   [X] Abstain
R027     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R028     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R029     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R030     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R031     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

Explanation of my "NO" votes:

I have no personal objection to R006, but Classic Conservative is right to point out that it is in direct conflict with existing federal law (specifically, the Citizens United ruling). I don't like it, but the Regions have no power to overturn Supreme Court rulings. If you want to work for campaign finance reform, you have to do it with an amendment at the federal level.

R022 is horribly vague and would open the floodgates for the collapse of majority rule and the nonpartisan judiciary if ever invoked. Basically, this amounts to a constitutional ban on "bad" laws, granting the judiciary the de facto power to annul any and all laws that they don't like. This is just a really, really, really bad idea - how it got into the Mideast Constitution is beyond me, and I hope to God none of you think this should be carried over into our new Region's government.

[cinyc]

OFFICIAL BALLOT

R001     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R002     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R003     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R004     [  ] YES   [X] NO   [  ] Abstain
R005     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R006     [  ] YES   [X] NO   [  ] Abstain
R007     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R008     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R009     [  ] YES   [X] NO   [  ] Abstain
R010     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R011     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R012     [  ] YES   [X] NO   [  ] Abstain
R013     [  ] YES   [X] NO   [  ] Abstain
R014     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R015     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R016     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R017     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R018     [  ] YES   [X] NO   [  ] Abstain
R019     [  ] YES   [X] NO   [  ] Abstain
R020     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R021     [  ] YES   [X] NO   [  ] Abstain
R022     [  ] YES   [X] NO   [  ] Abstain
R023     [  ] YES   [X] NO   [  ] Abstain
R024     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R025     [  ] YES   [X] NO   [  ] Abstain
R026     [  ] YES   [X] NO   [  ] Abstain
R027     [  ] YES   [X] NO   [  ] Abstain
R028     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R029     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R030     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R031     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain

[cinyc]

Reasons for No votes:
R004 - Voter eligibility is governed by federal law.  We can't do anything but follow federal standards.  
R006 - It is unconstitutional under current law.
R009 - Doesn't provide protection to workers who wish not to organize or join a union.  And public employee unions have too much power.
R012 -  Too vague.
R013 -  Same-sex marriage is governed by federal law.  We can't do anything but follow federal
standards.
R018 - Jury trials in civil suits should be voluntary, not mandatory, especially in complex cases.
R019 - There should be no restrictions on the death penalty, which should be legal.
R021 - We should be free to set up alternative education systems, i.e. vouchers, if we wish not to run public schools.
R022 - Too vague.
R023  - We should be able to draft during peacetime, especially if the future looks perilous.
R025  - The Regional Guard should be able to conduct anti-terror patrols at airports and the like.  It's not clear that they would if this amendment is passed.
R026 - I'm not sure why this is necessary - or if it is even allowed under federal law.  Federal law generally governs voting rights.
R027  - Federal law already has a dual office holding ban.  We can't do anything about it, but should keep our options open if federal law ever were repealed.  Plus, it would ban Assemblymen from serving in a cabinet (which already is arguably illegal under federal law, anyway).

[Kingpoleon]

OFFICIAL BALLOT

R001     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R002     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R003     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R004     [  ] YES   [  ] NO   [X] Abstain
R005     [  ] YES   [  ] NO   [X] Abstain
R006     [  ] YES   [  ] NO   [X] Abstain
R007     [  ] YES   [  ] NO   [X] Abstain
R008     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R009     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R010     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R011     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R012     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R013     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R014     [  ] YES   [X] NO   [  ] Abstain
R015     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R016     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R017     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R018     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R019     [  ] YES   [X] NO   [  ] Abstain
R020     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R021     [  ] YES   [  ] NO   [X] Abstain
R022     [  ] YES   [X] NO   [  ] Abstain
R023     [  ] YES   [X] NO   [  ] Abstain
R024     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R025     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R026     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R027     [  ] YES   [X] NO   [  ] Abstain
R028     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R029     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R030     [  ] YES   [  ] NO   [X] Abstain
R031     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain

Some reasons:

4, 5, 6, 7, 13, 19, and 22 need amended in my opinion. "Only in a manner consistent with the law" and all variations thereof is far too broad for the first four.

18 should not in the Constitution.

Once voting is over, I motion for the Committee to go over all rights with five or less AYE votes to consider amendments.

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

nay on proposals 10 and 22; aye on all others

[Former Lincoln Assemblyman & Lt. Gov. RGN]

PRINCIPLE VOTE on the BILL OF RIGHTS

OFFICIAL BALLOT

R001     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R002     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R003     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R004     [  ] YES   [X] NO   [  ] Abstain
R005     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R006     [  ] YES   [X] NO   [  ] Abstain
R007     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R008     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R009     [  ] YES   [X] NO   [  ] Abstain
R010     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R011     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R012     [  ] YES   [X] NO   [  ] Abstain
R013     [  ] YES   [X] NO   [  ] Abstain
R014     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R015     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R016     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R017     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R018     [  ] YES   [X] NO   [  ] Abstain
R019     [  ] YES   [X] NO   [  ] Abstain
R020     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R021     [  ] YES   [X] NO   [  ] Abstain
R022     [  ] YES   [X] NO   [  ] Abstain
R023     [  ] YES   [X] NO   [  ] Abstain
R024     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R025     [  ] YES   [X] NO   [  ] Abstain
R026     [  ] YES   [X] NO   [  ] Abstain
R027     [  ] YES   [X] NO   [  ] Abstain
R028     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R029     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R030     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain
R031     [X] YES   [  ] NO   [  ] Abstain

[Blair]

1.) Yes
2.) Yes
3.) Yes
4.) No
5.) Yes
6.) No
7.) Yes
8.) Yes
9.) No
10.) No.
11.) Yes
12.) Yes
13.) Yes
14.) Yes
15.) Yes
16.) Yes
17.) Yes
18.) No
19.) Yes
20.) Yes
21.) Yes
22.) No
23.) No
24.) Yes
25.) No
26.) Yes
27.) Yes
28.) Yes
29.) Yes
30.) No
31.) Yes

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

RESULTS

R001 PASSED
R002 PASSED
R003 PASSED
R004 FAILED
R005 PASSED
R006 FAILED
R007 PASSED
R008 PASSED
R009 FAILED
R010 PASSED
R011 PASSED
R012 PASSED
R013 PASSED
R014 PASSED
R015 PASSED
R016 PASSED
R017 PASSED
R018 FAILED
R019 FAILED
R020 PASSED
R021 PASSED
R022 FAILED
R023 FAILED
R024 PASSED
R025 FAILED
R026 PASSED
R027 FAILED
R028 PASSED
R029 PASSED
R030 PASSED
R031 PASSED

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Is there any unfinished business left, or is this thing ready to be voted on?

[cinyc]

Is there any unfinished business left, or is this thing ready to be voted on?

I propose putting Poirot's suggestion that if there's a 3-man Assembly, unanimity of all 3 members is necessary to pass a proposed Constitutional Amendment, instead of 2/3rds, to a vote.

I also propose that if a vacancy occurs on a Thursday, we don't open special election votes the next day, but the following Friday.  There's too little time for people to declare and set up the ballot otherwise.

I then propose that the Chairman restate the full constitution, and give us 48 hours to review the text for technical or other changes.  If there aren't any, we then proceed to a vote on the full text.