BREAKING: Catalonia Declares Independence (user search)
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  BREAKING: Catalonia Declares Independence (search mode)
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Author Topic: BREAKING: Catalonia Declares Independence  (Read 23093 times)
Lord Halifax
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,312
Papua New Guinea


« on: September 09, 2017, 07:36:55 AM »

Catalonia doesn't deserve to be able to break away even if nationalists can arguably easily corral a majority (if we treat the 2015 regional election as a proxy). Rajoy's handling of the situation has been good in my opinion. Una Espaņa unida y indivisible.
If these nationalist politicians want to lose their positions, that's fine by me. Unmerited hatred against other regions in Spain, needless division, and manufactured greivances with little to no basis in actual history are the true foundations of modern Catalan nationalism. Franco is no longer in power, and they have some autonomy. They don't seem to care about rule of law or the truth. Their narration of the past is filled with lies and ideologically motivated half-truths, and they've successfully brainwashed a big chunk of the youngest generation. They are agents of sectional-based hatred and unneeded division, and they must not be allowed to win. Rajoy must keep his spine and his resolve to keep Spain together. He needs to woo those who haven't bought into the nationalists' lies.

Why this weird hatred? Catalonia is a nation with its own language and culture. If they want their own nation state what does it matter to you? All peoples should be entitled to self-determination.
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Lord Halifax
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,312
Papua New Guinea


« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2017, 08:49:05 AM »

Catalonia doesn't deserve to be able to break away even if nationalists can arguably easily corral a majority (if we treat the 2015 regional election as a proxy). Rajoy's handling of the situation has been good in my opinion. Una Espaņa unida y indivisible.
If these nationalist politicians want to lose their positions, that's fine by me. Unmerited hatred against other regions in Spain, needless division, and manufactured greivances with little to no basis in actual history are the true foundations of modern Catalan nationalism. Franco is no longer in power, and they have some autonomy. They don't seem to care about rule of law or the truth. Their narration of the past is filled with lies and ideologically motivated half-truths, and they've successfully brainwashed a big chunk of the youngest generation. They are agents of sectional-based hatred and unneeded division, and they must not be allowed to win. Rajoy must keep his spine and his resolve to keep Spain together. He needs to woo those who haven't bought into the nationalists' lies.

Why this weird hatred? Catalonia is a nation with its own language and culture. If they want their own nation state what does it matter to you? All peoples should be entitled to self-determination.
Catalonia isn't being suppressed like it was under Franco, for one. They are free to speak Catalan and enjoy their culture. They should be recognized as a nation within Spain (the courts really overreached themselves in 2010) but independence would be a terrible idea for all parties involved. As long as the nationalists in Spain keep talking up referendums and keep ignoring court rulings and all that, they must accept the risks they are putting on their political careers.

I was mostly referring to the weird passion you seem to have about this.

What does "suppression" have to do with anything? There should be a general right to self-determination for any nation whether its oppressed or not.

Independence would hardly be a terrible idea for the Catalans. They can easily manage without being part of the rather inept Spanish state.
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Lord Halifax
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,312
Papua New Guinea


« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2017, 02:48:53 PM »

Today the police arrested a dozen of high officials of the Catalan government, apparently the main organizers of the referendum. Also the police has been raiding printing companies and confiscated the ballots they found there. It's hard to see how the referendum could take place normally after all that.

Guardia Civil or Mossos d'Esquadra?
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