Official Chick-fil-A Thread

[ZuWo]

How is supporting traditional values homophobic? I'm sick of seeing that term thrown around and misused so often. Supporting 1 man 1 woman marriage =/= hating the gays. Get over it.

Don't be a dumb. For a same-sex couple that wants to get married, being told that they can't and that it's not because opponents "hate the gay" is bullsh**t. It really does mean that those people hate the life that gay men and women lead and don't want their commitment to be official before the law, which means yes, "hating the gay". I at least have some respect for opponents of same-sex marriage who are upfront about it and say it's because they hate gay people. None for opponents who say they don't hate gay people, and civil unions are "good enough" or some dumb sh**t like that.

What I think many people do not understand is the fact that some people interpret their faith as saying its wrong. Hell, I thought same sex marriage was wrong until last Sunday, and it is in the Bible, no doubt about it. My faith is much more important to me than whether or not homosexuals have their rights.

In the Bible, it does clearly condemn homosexual marriage. It also clearly says that we are made in Gods image. And scissors cuts paper. Thus, in my opinion, homosexuality is reconciled with Christianity, with God’s law being more important than ancient Israeli old testament beliefs. But, some Christians disagree with me on this. Some do believe that the Old Testament is important as a stepping stone for the Gospel. That does not make them hateful. I think some gay rights activists are hateful. I think they downright hate Christians just because a bunch of closeted Catholic bishops and radical Southern Baptists and Pentecostals claim to represent Christianity and “family values”. If “family values” automatically is “hate”, than it would be equally logical to say that aids is to be totally blamed on homosexuals-which is an incredibly illogical and stupid statement.

Opponents of gay marriage look at gay marriage the way gays look at it. They feel it should be prevented on religious grounds as much as gays feel it should be pushed through on civil rights grounds. Yes, it is true that the Rick Santorums and Mike Huckabees of the world condemn gay rights only to turn around and say “oh no, were being discriminated against for our Christian faith” and what have you, but the people on the “family values” side of the issue are just as well intentioned as those who are on the side of gay marriage.

Again, I believe that gay marriage can be reconciled with Christianity (IE-The Gospel, not the Old Testament),so I am on the side of those who seek marriage equality in the state of Florida (marriage is entirely a state by state issue), but too condemn those who support family values as homophobes is just as bad as to condemn homosexuals for their lifestyle. Both sides of the issue are right, and both are wrong, in many, many ways. That is why this issue is one of the most needlessly passionate and distracting issues in American politics.  

FTR, it's not only the Old Testament which contains passages that condemn same-sex acts. Have a look at Paul's epistle to the Romans (specifically Romans 1, 26-27).

[ZuWo]

FTR, it's not only the Old Testament which contains passages that condemn same-sex acts. Have a look at Paul's epistle to the Romans (specifically Romans 1, 26-27).

I could argue with you the nuances of the language and specifically what Paul is condemning but for a change read what Paul says afterwards;

Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

Is Paul right? Are people who undertake same-sex acts wicked, evil. Are they full of deceit, malice, murder. Do we disobey parents, do we have no love?

Because if you think Paul is right on 26-27, surely you must think he's right at 28-32?

Paul refers to human beings who live in sin in general, he doesn't single out homosexuals. He makes a list of actions he regards as sins - he says that certain actions are sinful but he doesn't suggest that if you do action A you also do B, C and D etc. Just because a person does one of the actions that are mentioned in these verses he/she does not necessarily do all of the others. As Romans 1, 18 and the verses that follow make clear, the personal pronouns "they" and "them" which Paul makes use of refer to sinning human beings in general, not homosexual people in particular.

[ZuWo]

No. Everything Paul writes between verse 18 and verse 32 must be regarded as a coherent whole. In the opening of this passage, Paul sets the topic and talks about the godlessness of the human race; the personal pronoun "they" hence always refers to godless human beings. What follows is a list of all the wrongdoings people can be guilty of; same-sex acts are one of many examples "they", i.e. human beings in general, can engage in. The entire second half of chapter 1 is dedicated to the wickedness of the human race, and since actions or attitudes like "envy" or "murder" occur among people regardless of their sexual orientation, it makes sense to assume that Paul addresses all people who live in sin, not just a particular group.