Politics and Elections in the Netherlands: coalition agreement presented

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

This may be a bit of an amoral solution, but I feel the best solution is to channel the dislike of islam held by the populace into dislike of the biggest enemy of Saudi Arabia.

[Zinneke]

Then its not a problem with Islam, it with the wrong doers particular culture. I could be an anti-workerist and attribute to their working class culture, or their excessively communatarian culture (i.e lack of individual responsibility, which is what Rutte is contributing to the debate). Its just way too easy to always use the culture card to explain everything though. That goes from the materialist left argument that looks to excuse even petty crime because someone was poor, to the nationalist right and their exclusivist arguments against multiculturalism. We're back at basic, primal securitisation in the latter's case.

[DavidB.]

The following debates will take place before the election:

2/26: Prime Ministers' Debate by RTL: four best-polling party leaders
3/5: Carré Debate by RTL and BNR: eight best-polling party leaders
3/13: Rutte-Wilders Debate by EenVandaag: Rutte vs. Wilders
3/14: NOS Debate by NOS

RTL toyed with the idea to include the six best-polling party leaders instead of four at the Prime Ministers' Debate because CDA, D66 and GL are polling roughly similar numbers, but Rutte and Wilders struck a deal not to participate in the debate if that happens. Currently, PVV, VVD, D66 and CDA are the four best-polling parties and RTL is probably afraid of not having a single left-wing party represented in the debate.

Apart from the Rutte-Wilders debate, EenVandaag also wanted a debate between the three left-wing leaders, but Roemer didn't want to debate Klaver and Asscher didn't want a left-wing debate at all (for obvious reasons) so that didn't happen.

[DavidB.]

Today a PvdA-initiated protest against Donald Trump, featuring politicians of other parties such as DENK too, took place in The Hague.

[DavidB.]

In other (real) news, pollster Kantar (formerly TNS NIPO) found that among 18 to 25-year olds, 21% intend to vote PVV. Among those who are certain to vote in March, this percentage is 33% (!).

[Klartext89]

In other (real) news, pollster Kantar (formerly TNS NIPO) found that among 18 to 25-year olds, 21% intend to vote PVV. Among those who are certain to vote in March, this percentage is 33% (!).

Good news! Wilders on course to get a big lead.

[Grand Wizard Lizard of the Klan]

In other (real) news, pollster Kantar (formerly TNS NIPO) found that among 18 to 25-year olds, 21% intend to vote PVV. Among those who are certain to vote in March, this percentage is 33% (!).

Good news! Wilders on course to get a big lead.

How is that good news?

[Tender Branson]

Don't know if this has been posted already or not, but it seems the Dutch Interior Ministry decided to do a full hand-count in the upcoming elections, because of fears that scanners might be hacked (by the Russians etc.)

Nice.

[Klartext89]

Sorry, haven't noticed the problem before...

In other (real) news, pollster Kantar (formerly TNS NIPO) found that among 18 to 25-year olds, 21% intend to vote PVV. Among those who are certain to vote in March, this percentage is 33% (!).

Good news! Wilders on course to get a big lead.

How is that good news?

Well, could or should be more in the situtation in which European countries are, but to see that despite the mass media and school Propaganda there are still so many Young people who want to have a future in a Christian Nation ruled within their own Country instead of getting an Islamic Nation ruled in Brussel, is encouraging.

[palandio]

Please try to quote correctly and not to write inside quotes. It's not so difficult, really.

[DavidB.]

Don't know if this has been posted already or not, but it seems the Dutch Interior Ministry decided to do a full hand-count in the upcoming elections, because of fears that scanners might be hacked (by the Russians etc.)

Yes and no. As I can personally testify to, votes have always been counted by hand since the abolishment of electronic voting in 2007, but the aggregation of the vote totals of the various municipalities typically takes place by using a computer. Apparently that software has turned out to be unsafe and therefore this process will now take place by hand too. A smart decision, I think.

On another note, Wilders wanted to have payed-for "PVV streetcars" drive through Rotterdam, but public transit company RET didn't accept that offer, saying it only allows politically neutral advertising. Probably best for the physical state of their streetcars...



And regional newspaper Tubantia today reported that many people in the Assyrian community, mainly located in the far east of the country near the German border, are moving from the CDA to the PVV, citing issues such as integration, Christians in the Middle East and Islam.

[Grand Wizard Lizard of the Klan]

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What


PVV is nothing close to Christianity, if they want to have future "in Christian nation" they should vote SGP not some sh**tty populists. And I am not even going to comment that Islamic Nation part.

[Zanas]

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What


PVV is nothing close to Christianity, if they want to have future "in Christian nation" they should vote SGP not some sh**tty populists. And I am not even going to comment that Islamic Nation part.

Don't try to argue with fascists. You'll find them deaf to anything rational, and eventually you'll find out they actually enjoy the argument when you're boiling.

[DavidB.]

In response to Klartext and Kataak I'd say that nobody votes for the PVV in order to live in a "Christian nation" (most PVV voters are either non-religious or cultural Catholics), though many do vote PVV because they think the Netherlands may become a Muslim country otherwise. However, it is also not true that the PVV "is nothing close to Christianity" since the PVV support policies that further Judeo-Christian values both in this country and in international politics, which would arguably be better for Christians than, for instance, the consequences of the CDA's views.

[Klartext89]

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What


PVV is nothing close to Christianity, if they want to have future "in Christian nation" they should vote SGP not some sh**tty populists. And I am not even going to comment that Islamic Nation part.

What says everything about you and your knowledge in the topic. I'm glad Polish people (and government) are way different from you.

But I can't understand why: The problems with Muslim Iimigration and their Population growth aren't anything new, it's not hard to understand that more and more % of Muslim population leads to an Islamic state. That's what history teaches us. Turkey was a Christian country once.

The problems and discussions aren't over or finished when you call the other person bad names. You only show that you don't have the arguments on your side.

[Klartext89]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

What


PVV is nothing close to Christianity, if they want to have future "in Christian nation" they should vote SGP not some sh**tty populists. And I am not even going to comment that Islamic Nation part.

Don't try to argue with fascists. You'll find them deaf to anything rational, and eventually you'll find out they actually enjoy the argument when you're boiling.

Stop trolling.

You are the fascists, you are the ones having problems with different opinions, you are the ones committing violence against others.

There's no rationality in left "thinking", it's only hypocrisy and total nonsense like telling you are against Anti-Semitism or pro gay but celebrating the takeover of Islam. If it wasn't that sad, I could laugh.

[Grand Wizard Lizard of the Klan]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

What


PVV is nothing close to Christianity, if they want to have future "in Christian nation" they should vote SGP not some sh**tty populists. And I am not even going to comment that Islamic Nation part.

What says everything about you and your knowledge in the topic. I'm glad Polish people (and government) are way different from you.

But I can't understand why: The problems with Muslim Iimigration and their Population growth aren't anything new, it's not hard to understand that more and more % of Muslim population leads to an Islamic state. That's what history teaches us. Turkey was a Christian country once.

The problems and discussions aren't over or finished when you call the other person bad names. You only show that you don't have the arguments on your side.

First of all I don't even understand how you got the feeling that I am somehow different compared to other Polish people (if we consider that nations can be summed up as bundle of characteristics) while I prefer SGP than PVV.

Turkey never was Christian country, it exists since 1920's as a republic. And what history teach us that mistreatment of religious minorities lead to pogroms, tensions and in the best cases to mild alienation like Jews or Armenians in Eastern Europe. And Ottoman Empire did the same. If one ethnic group create paralel society to majority population society it never ends ups well. If there is problem with Muslim immigrants is that Western countries failed to create them good conditions to live and raise their children. Ghettoisation, radicalization are serious social problems and its not enough just to shout that "oh Muslims out". It take some time for immigrants to accommodate to local conditions , rules and institutions but this is possible. And this is role of host state to work in such way to fight with all social problems, but with reason. Polarization of society never works well, and this is what parties like PVV are willingly or unwillingly are doing. 

If you brought here case of Poland this country is good example of Muslim minority living well with majority, they are not big but there was period in history when there were more of them (population in Poland is small but there are also Lipka Tatars in Lithuania and Belarus). Some of them were involved in independence movement in XIX century, they were fighting with Germans in 1939, they contributed a lot giving a lot of social activists, military officers, clerks, doctors etc. But earlier Tatars migrating to Poland-Lithuania were given noble rights equal to what Poles, Ruthenians or Lithuanians had. That made them possible to coexist with other religious groups.

If some nation have problem with migrants so probably that is that nation fault, not the migrants. And if you fear that your country will no longer be Christian I have bad news for you - it is not caused by Muslims, it is caused by you all and fact that Western nations are no longer Christian. And this is funny that especially young people votes on parties like PVV or Front National. The same young people who use drugs, do not attend to Mass and do not pray. Terrains where AfD in Germany is the strongest, so post-DDR lands are predominantly atheist so if you are afraid of other religions better try to follow your one.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Just remembered that I made this last time round!

[icc]

Hi, just wondering if anyone has a link to box results from the 2012 election?

Thanks!

[Classic Conservative]

David, have you decided what party you are going to cast your ballot for?

[DavidB.]

Great maps, Al!

David, have you decided what party you are going to cast your ballot for?

Yes, for the PVV. I want mass immigration and EU integration to end. I have my disagreements with them and am pessimistic about the party's chances to achieve anything, but it's not as if there's a better option or one that would achieve more.

Hi, just wondering if anyone has a link to box results from the 2012 election?

What do you mean by "box results"?

[icc]

Great maps, Al!

David, have you decided what party you are going to cast your ballot for?

Yes, for the PVV. I want mass immigration and EU integration to end. I have my disagreements with them and am pessimistic about the party's chances to achieve anything, but it's not as if there's a better option or one that would achieve more.

Hi, just wondering if anyone has a link to box results from the 2012 election?

What do you mean by "box results"?

Results for each ballot box (or at least areas smaller than muncipalities)

[Zinneke]

Great maps, Al!

David, have you decided what party you are going to cast your ballot for?

Yes, for the PVV. I want mass immigration and EU integration to end. I have my disagreements with them and am pessimistic about the party's chances to achieve anything, but it's not as if there's a better option or one that would achieve more.

Hi, just wondering if anyone has a link to box results from the 2012 election?

What do you mean by "box results"?

Results for each ballot box (or at least areas smaller than muncipalities)

If you go on the municipal websites they somwtimes have an archive of all the election per ballot box

If you are non dutch, Google "gemeente <city name>" and look for verkiezingen (usually under something like "bestuur"). When I have the time I could post the data here but its a nightmare trying to sum all the ballot boxes into one district so its of little value to non-residents anyway.

[DavidB.]

Results for each ballot box (or at least areas smaller than muncipalities)

As far as I know they're all offline (probably takes up a lot of space) except for the NRC's 2015 Provincial Elections map by polling station: http://maps.nrc.nl/ps2015/ps2015sb-100pct.php.

Of course you can look them up for other elections on municipalities' websites, as Rogier said, but this takes so many work and gives me so little satisfaction (you have to look up the location of each polling station yourself and the results are often presented in the least "easy" way possible) that I myself only do it for municipalities I'm very well acquainted with, and only if necessary.

[SunSt0rm]

The draw for the NOS debate the evening before the election has taken place. Based on the Peilingwijzer and the current parliamentary composition, the main debate will have representatives of VVD, PvdA, PVV, CDA, D66, SP and CU. The one-on-one debates that will take place are as follows:

Klaver (GL) vs. Buma (CDA)
Pechtold (D66) vs. Roemer (SP)
Segers (CU) vs. Rutte (VVD)
Asscher (PvdA) vs. Wilders (PVV)

This seems good for Asscher, Wilders, Roemer and possibly Pechtold and bad for Rutte, who won't get the one-on-one debate with Wilders he wanted. Klaver will also not really get the chance to shine against moderate hero Buma.

The kiddie table debate that will take place before the main debate includes representatives of all small parties currently represented in parliament: SGP, 50Plus and PvdD (who obtained their seats in the election) and VNL, DENK and Nieuwe Wegen (who obtained their seats as splitoffs). Round one will have Van der Staaij (SGP), Krol (50Plus) and Oosenbrug (Nieuwe Wegen); round two will be somewhat more spectacular with Thieme (PvdD), Roos (VNL) and Kuzu (DENK). Roos already came up with the remark that this debate is VNL "Voor Nederland" versus DENK "Voor Turkije".

FVD were upset that they aren't included at the kiddie table debate, arguing that VNL aren't any more legitimately elected than FVD. This may obviously be true, but there will be 30 parties participating in the election, more than in any election since the early 1970s. No one wants to have all these parties participate in the kiddie table debate, and opening the door to FVD means opening the door to any crazy party. You have to make some selection.

They will be two rounds of debates at the NOS. The second round is:

Buma vs Pechtold
Roemer vs Asscher
Rutte vs Klaver
Wilders vs Segers

I think Klaver is happy to debate one on one with Rutte