Ecuadorians Storm Mexican Embassy
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Author Topic: Ecuadorians Storm Mexican Embassy  (Read 909 times)
Ⓐnarchy in the ☭☭☭P!
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« on: April 06, 2024, 07:06:28 PM »

Kind of surprised how little coverage this has gotten but the Ecuadorians straight up invaded the Mexican embassy in Quito to arrest the former VP

Obviously the Mexicans immediately severed ties, though further responses are likely as this is a pretty flagrant violation of international law



Does the Vienna Convention mean nothing anymore?
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gerritcole
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« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2024, 11:00:03 PM »

The global power structure upholding those conventions principles is weakenin,
,we are turning inwards
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2024, 11:46:06 PM »

This must be harshly punished.
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2024, 09:56:05 AM »


But how?
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Coldstream
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« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2024, 10:13:54 AM »

Ecuador has changed man.
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2024, 11:40:53 AM »

That part I'm not so sure of.
We must at least try to preserve the Vienna Conventions...
Perhaps a big indemnity payment would be in order. If the money isn't necessarily there, screw it. Shouldn't have seen this occur.
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I spent the winter writing songs about getting better
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« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2024, 03:02:33 PM »

Quite hypocritical of Ecuador considering how long they harbored Julian Assange.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2024, 03:28:46 PM »

Yeah, this is unacceptable. Ideally all Latin American countries should coordinate a response involving sanctions and diplomatic isolation until Glas is freed and reparations are made to the Mexican government.
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Red Velvet
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« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2024, 03:30:52 PM »

Correct response from Mexico, as their sovereignty was violated.

So sad everything we read from Ecuador these days. Gives the vibes of a failed State on the level of Venezuela.
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TheReckoning
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« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2024, 04:19:06 PM »

Embassies should not be considered jurisdiction of the non-host country IMO.
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buritobr
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« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2024, 10:50:38 PM »

The are sovereign nation-states who have their law and their law enforcement mechanisms. But the world is an anarchy. The UN is not a nation-state. There is no international law enforcement mechanism which really works.
The principle that an Embassy is a territory of the country of the Embassy and not a territory of the country where the Embassy is located is usually respected because countries usually respect it, but there is no corporation which can guarantee this principle through the use of force, like the police does if you steal something.
So, I think Mexico should do what it can do: cut diplomatic ties to Ecuador. Maybe, other Latin American countries should do this. None have power to enforce the principle of the embassy, but they can use pressure.

There is a long history of respect of diplomatic immunity. The Eastern European front of the WW2 was the deadliest conflict in the history of the mankind. But in June 1941, both the staff of the Soviet Embassy in Berlin and the German Embassy in Moscow were neither arrested nor executed. They could return home.
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It’s so Joever
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« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2024, 06:26:04 PM »

Embassies should not be considered jurisdiction of the non-host country IMO.
You do understand that would almost certainly my cause massive shutdowns of embassies (and thus further straining a of relations) out of fear diplomats will turn into political prisoners, right?
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TheReckoning
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« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2024, 06:31:54 PM »

Embassies should not be considered jurisdiction of the non-host country IMO.
You do understand that would almost certainly my cause massive shutdowns of embassies (and thus further straining a of relations) out of fear diplomats will turn into political prisoners, right?

Why would countries want to arrest diplomats as political prisoners?
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2024, 06:46:22 PM »

yeah sure let's just tear down one of the foundations of modern international law on a whim to Own The Lefties. Nothing bad could possibly come out of that. Roll Eyes
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It’s so Joever
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« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2024, 06:50:04 PM »

Embassies should not be considered jurisdiction of the non-host country IMO.
You do understand that would almost certainly my cause massive shutdowns of embassies (and thus further straining a of relations) out of fear diplomats will turn into political prisoners, right?

Why would countries want to arrest diplomats as political prisoners?
This must be trolling.
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TheReckoning
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« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2024, 09:39:03 PM »
« Edited: April 08, 2024, 11:02:31 PM by TheReckoning »

Embassies should not be considered jurisdiction of the non-host country IMO.
You do understand that would almost certainly my cause massive shutdowns of embassies (and thus further straining a of relations) out of fear diplomats will turn into political prisoners, right?

Why would countries want to arrest diplomats as political prisoners?
This must be trolling.

If you’re talking about countries like Iran, we don’t even have an embassy with them, largely because of these reasons. If you’re talking about countries like Canada, why would they sour relations with the USA for no reason?

yeah sure let's just tear down one of the foundations of modern international law on a whim to Own The Lefties. Nothing bad could possibly come out of that. Roll Eyes

What does this have to do with the political spectrum? Lol
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2024, 09:51:52 AM »
« Edited: April 09, 2024, 10:02:21 AM by CumbrianLefty »

Its a rather "Trumpian" thing to suggest, in the eyes of many of us across the political spectrum.

Of course, your mileage may vary and that is something that you are totally entitled to.
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Open Source Intelligence
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« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2024, 11:17:52 AM »

That part I'm not so sure of.
We must at least try to preserve the Vienna Conventions...
Perhaps a big indemnity payment would be in order. If the money isn't necessarily there, screw it. Shouldn't have seen this occur.

Indemnities will never work. Your best bet is everyone withdraws diplomatic recognition en masse, but I won't hold my breath.

To quote a person critical of something I commented on once, "not even Western states believe in Westphalian principles anymore".
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2024, 01:47:53 PM »

That part I'm not so sure of.
We must at least try to preserve the Vienna Conventions...
Perhaps a big indemnity payment would be in order. If the money isn't necessarily there, screw it. Shouldn't have seen this occur.

Indemnities will never work. Your best bet is everyone withdraws diplomatic recognition en masse, but I won't hold my breath.

To quote a person critical of something I commented on once, "not even Western states believe in Westphalian principles anymore".
Is military force on the table? Maybe if Ecuador refuses to behave we could send an aircraft carrier or navy ship into Guayaquil to see how they feel about this uncivilized behavior...
I would hate for that to have to be necessary though.
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Open Source Intelligence
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« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2024, 03:39:40 PM »

That part I'm not so sure of.
We must at least try to preserve the Vienna Conventions...
Perhaps a big indemnity payment would be in order. If the money isn't necessarily there, screw it. Shouldn't have seen this occur.

Indemnities will never work. Your best bet is everyone withdraws diplomatic recognition en masse, but I won't hold my breath.

To quote a person critical of something I commented on once, "not even Western states believe in Westphalian principles anymore".
Is military force on the table? Maybe if Ecuador refuses to behave we could send an aircraft carrier or navy ship into Guayaquil to see how they feel about this uncivilized behavior...
I would hate for that to have to be necessary though.

No unless AMLO or Biden is insane.
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2024, 03:45:24 PM »
« Edited: April 09, 2024, 03:49:04 PM by President Punxsutawney Phil »

That part I'm not so sure of.
We must at least try to preserve the Vienna Conventions...
Perhaps a big indemnity payment would be in order. If the money isn't necessarily there, screw it. Shouldn't have seen this occur.

Indemnities will never work. Your best bet is everyone withdraws diplomatic recognition en masse, but I won't hold my breath.

To quote a person critical of something I commented on once, "not even Western states believe in Westphalian principles anymore".
Is military force on the table? Maybe if Ecuador refuses to behave we could send an aircraft carrier or navy ship into Guayaquil to see how they feel about this uncivilized behavior...
I would hate for that to have to be necessary though.

No unless AMLO or Biden is insane.
Protecting diplomats and in particular the Vienna Convention is no joke. Countries have been bombed and invaded for less.
Ecuador is obliged to protect diplomatic missions within its territory, no matter the flag they fly. Or pay the price for it.
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Sir John Johns
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« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2024, 12:39:18 PM »

The Mexican Foreign Ministry has released additional footage of the police raid inside the embassy where one can see the diplomatic staff being mishandled and Glas being forcibly taken outside. Rafael Correa is claiming that phones belonging to the former vice-president were also illegally seized by the Ecuadorian police.



Such video will not help Ecuador in the case Mexico has announced it will file before the International Court of Justice. It has already led a stronger rebuke from the United States than the first one and the passage in the OAS of a resolution condemning the action of Ecuador. Strong probability that Ecuador will lose the case before the ICJ and been sentenced to the payment of financial penalties, but such process will be very slow. Ecuador is accustomed to lose cases before international and foreign courts, in particular in disputes with multinational companies or in human rights violations cases.

Sanctions could happen earlier however as Mexico has definitely a bigger influence inside Latin American organizations than Ecuador. Suspension of Ecuador from the CELAC and Mercosur (as an associated member) have been mentioned and the accession of the country to the Pacific Alliance will be indefinitely frozen. The already complicated negotiations for the signature of a free trade agreement between Mexico and Ecuador are also jeopardized.

The rupture with Mexico is the acme of the particularly disastrous diplomacy of Daniel Noboa, marked by amateurism and inconsistency as illustrated by the decision to assign the estranged Trumpist vice president in Tel Aviv to head a fictitious peace mission in Israel as a way to get rid of a political rival or the vacancies in key diplomatic jobs (no titular ambassador in Washington since two months and no one in Mexico since October).

The spat with Mexico started earlier this month when AMLO made outrageous comments about the assassination of Fernando Villavicencio (hinting the candidate was assassinated to prevent a victory of Correa’s candidate in the 2023 presidential election), comments that led Ecuador to order the departure of the Mexican ambassador. It was shortly thereafter followed by the announcement that Glas (who took refuge in the embassy in last December) would be granted political asylum in Mexico, a decision the Noboa administration has denounced as an abuse of right to asylum and as an infringement on the sovereignty of Ecuador. According to the Ecuadorian government, the police intervened to prevent the imminent flight of Glas out of the country, similar to the March 2023 flight of María de los Ángeles Duarte (a minister under Correa sentenced from corruption) from the Argentinian embassy where she was housed since 2020 to Venezuela, a flight thought to have been helped by Argentina.

Already sentenced in two corruption cases (kickbacks received from Odebrecht and illegal financing of election campaigns), Glas was about to be indicted in another one (embezzlement in the reconstruction of Manabí province after an earthquake) when he took refuge in the Mexican embassy. Glas is also the subject of a complaint for harassment filed by a former close adviser and could be indicted in additional corruption cases like corrupt oil contracts mentioned during secretly recorded 2014 meeting between the then-vice-president and a high official. In short, there is little doubt about the fact that Glas is a criminal who had embezzled lot of public money under Correa.

More importantly, Glas is now also suspected to have obtain his conditional release (he abused to flee to the Mexican embassy) through the intervention of now deceased drug lord who bribed judges in order to get the former vice-president out of prison (part of various very suspicious conditional release decisions awarded to imprisoned drug traffickers). On last month, a witness into a protection program testified during a pre-trial examination that, when sharing a cell with the drug lord in 2022, this one had phone conversations with Correa himself to discuss the release from prison of Glas.

Whether the accusation is true (there is mounting evidence about ties between narcos and Ecuadorian politicians, including Correa’s party), this is mattering in a context where fight against drug gangs and their allies inside the state apparatus has became the main declared priority of the Noboa administration and as a referendum is to be held on 21 April to approve, among other things (including, ironically, the recognition of international arbitration as a way to settle disputes in economic and trade disputes), an increase of the powers of the army, police and justice in matter of fight against criminality and the enabling of extradition of nationals prosecuted for organized criminality by foreign courts (currently prohibited by the Constitution).

The raid on the embassy has been motivated by internal political and electoral concerns and is enabling Noboa to reassert his posture as a tough-on-crime strongman which has been undermined in recent weeks by an upsurge in criminality. It rises also strong concerns about an authoritarian drift of the president who is planning to run for a full presidential term in next February.

There is a precedent in Ecuadorian history when a president decided to blatantly violate international laws in order to win a power-grabbing referendum. In September 2008, few days before a referendum to approve a new constitution, Correa triggered a major diplomatic crisis with Brazil when he ordered the military to seize the assets of Odebrecht and expelled the company from the country. The expulsion was decided after revelations about the corruption practices of Odebrecht and the discovery of technical defects in a dam it delivered to the Ecuadorian government. Odebrecht was however enabled to return in Ecuador in 2010, presumably because Ecuador would have lost the case before an international court and couldn’t afford to alienate the Brazilian regional power. Odebrecht resumed its corruption practices, leading to the 2018 sentencing of Glas for corruption and to the current trial in Miami of the then-comptroller general, accused of having written off penalties against Odebrecht in 2010 in exchange of bribes subsequently laundered in Florida.

Finally, while the raid on the Mexican embassy have been publicly (and more or less strongly) criticized by the vast majority of the countries of the region (from Venezuela to Argentina), the government of El Salvador has remained silent on the matter and abstained in the vote by the OAS of a resolution condemning the Ecuadorian government. Noboa has made no mystery about his security police being inspired by Nayib Bukele. It is possible that once you have decided it is totally OK to ignore international standards in justice (arbitrary detentions, mass incarceration, permanent state of emergency, mass trials) to crack down on criminals, the next step is to totally disregard elementary diplomatic conventions?

In short:
* the raid against the embassy is indefensible
* fight against criminality shouldn't justify such abuses
* the right of asylum has been diverted to ensure impunity for corrupt politicians
* the main victims will be again Ecuadorian people, in particular the ones trying to enter the United States by crossing the Mexican border
* a long way to go before Latin American integration
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« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2024, 02:25:41 PM »

It was probably an extremely poor decision of Mexico to offer sanctuary to a foreign country's leader who was accused of domestic crimes, and a major conflict with Ecuador was inevitable - but MAN, did Ecuador escalate in possibly the dumbest, worst way they possibly could!
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Libertas Vel Mors
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« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2024, 02:30:34 PM »

It was probably an extremely poor decision of Mexico to offer sanctuary to a foreign country's leader who was accused of domestic crimes, and a major conflict with Ecuador was inevitable - but MAN, did Ecuador escalate in possibly the dumbest, worst way they possibly could!

Agreed. I'm sympathetic to Ecuador's motives here and they are obviously right to resent Mexico's decision to give refuge to a man indicted for corruption for non-political reasons (there really isn't any legitimate political asylum argument here) but the better solution would have been to sever relations with Mexico and declare their diplomats persona non grata rather than attack the embassy. Yes, that probably wouldn't have secured justice in this particular matter, but it would be preferable to inviting opprobrium and violating treaty obligations.

Separately, this is a great reminder of why the present Mexican government is a really malignant influence in the Americas and a threat to American national security.  
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