Libya: Benghazi unrest, to Civil War, to a new government and Gaddafi's death.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Forcing a cease-fire? Would be splendid.

Separating two fighting sides? Would be great.

Supporting one side against other in Arab tribal war? Insane.

[opebo]

It is interesting to note how excited yesterday's imperial superpowers are about this. A chance to flex their muscles and prove they're not irrelevant, I suppose?

Precisely, and grab back a colony while putting an upstart who has been a thorn in their side for 40 years in his place.  If only Gaddafi had some means of striking back at Paris, London, Brussels.

(am I allowed to say that?)

[GMantis]

It is interesting to note how excited yesterday's imperial superpowers are about this. A chance to flex their muscles and prove they're not irrelevant, I suppose?

Well, in Sarkozy's case there is the need to divert attention from his shady dealings with Gadhafi.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Some sudden fears of tribal war now while there is not the slightest sign about it, ok...

The guys from the East were about to risk their lives with pick-ups and kalachnikovs against a regular army to freed cities in the West. Cities in the West which all knew an uprising and a lot at one point had fell into rebels Libyan hands. All wave the same flag. All want Gaddafi out.
Here comes the civil war?

And then some people quietly in a not Libyan home will explain to some people in some Libyan homes, that this military operation is stupid? That Gaddafi blindly bombing civilians (not fighters) over and over if you believe the videos and the medical sources of the different cities, west and east, is better? That they shouldn't have partied in streets of western and eastern cities when they heard UN passed it. That they shouldn't having waved French flags during one week? That the representation that has been built in Benghazi and that seems to have been quite responsible in its making and its attitude so far shouldn't have come to Paris? That they shouldn't have coordinated operations with the coalition?

You will explain all of that? Enjoy.

[Franzl]

Very pleased with what's going on.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Ah and, French Defense indeed deny the French jet down.

About 110 Tomahawks have been shot from US and UK submarines yes, they targeted anti-aicraft defense.

[exopolitician]

Where did this tribal war nonsense come from?

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

An Air Force base bombed close of Misrata. Misrata had been one of the most bombed city during the last days. Good for them.

[Antonio the Sixth]

So they finally acted, after an entire day buying into Gaddafi's "ceasefire" and allowing him to almost entirely wipe out the rebels. I just hope it's not too late, because now Gaddafi holding on would be a catastrophe for everyone. Had they done this one week ago, it would have been a walk in the park. But anyways, if we want to win this war a terrestrial operation will be necessary. The no-fly-zone is no longer sufficient by now.

Note : just ignore Opebo.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Where did this tribal war nonsense come from?

I have the same question. Some people probably try to rationalize their knee-jerk reaction to any kind of military intervention.

[Hash]

I have a feeling that scumbag Steve Harper will disgustingly and shamelessly spin this to his advantage during the oh, so likely election campaign later this month. And the idiots who inhabit  Canada will gobble it all up.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

a terrestrial operation will be necessary. The no-fly-zone is no longer sufficient by now.

There is a gap between a no-fly-zone and a terrestrial operation. That has been all the sense of the French resolution: No Ground forces. That's the sense of this operation and an important conditions for Libyans. That is not our war. We help them. All of this is why it is not Iraq or Afghanistan. And that's why France insisted in its resolution on something further than a no-fly-zone, while making clear that it wouldn't use ground forces. Now, if it comes to be necessary and only if a Libyan representation ask for it, it might have to be reexamined, but we're far from this tonight.

[Antonio the Sixth]

a terrestrial operation will be necessary. The no-fly-zone is no longer sufficient by now.

There is a gap between a no-fly-zone and a terrestrial operation. That has been all the sense of the French resolution: No Ground forces. That's the sense of this operation and an important conditions for Libyans. That is not our war. We help them. All of this is why it is not Iraq or Afghanistan. And that's why France insisted in its resolution on something further than a no-fly-zone, while making clear that it wouldn't use ground forces. Now, if it comes to be necessary and only if a Libyan representation ask for it, it might have to be reexamined, but we're far from this tonight.

But do we really have an alternative ? With the rebels almost anihilated, the only thing a no-fly-zone will do is allowing the rebels to maybe keep Benghazi, and allowing Gaddafi to hold everything else, rebuild his legitimacy etc...
Which means it will be a masquerade for the West, a trauma for the Libyan people, a worrying sign for other Arab countries and a humiliation for human rights diplomacy.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Where did this tribal war nonsense come from?

I have the same question. Some people probably try to rationalize their knee-jerk reaction to any kind of military intervention.

Do I need to remind that Libya is one of those countries, where various tribal divisions and influence of tribes are strongest?

Oh, btw, Gaddafi/opposition lines are mostly along with regional/tribal divisions.

Please learn more about Arab culture before posting.

[Insula Dei]

Where did this tribal war nonsense come from?

I have the same question. Some people probably try to rationalize their knee-jerk reaction to any kind of military intervention.

Do I need to remind that Libya is one of those countries, where various tribal divisions and influence of tribes are strongest?

Oh, btw, Gaddafi/opposition lines are mostly along with regional/tribal divisions.

Please learn more about Arab culture before posting.

Ahem, Qaddafi also is a murderous madman.

[Iosif]

I think the international community has handled this situation the best they feasibly could.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

a terrestrial operation will be necessary. The no-fly-zone is no longer sufficient by now.

There is a gap between a no-fly-zone and a terrestrial operation. That has been all the sense of the French resolution: No Ground forces. That's the sense of this operation and an important conditions for Libyans. That is not our war. We help them. All of this is why it is not Iraq or Afghanistan. And that's why France insisted in its resolution on something further than a no-fly-zone, while making clear that it wouldn't use ground forces. Now, if it comes to be necessary and only if a Libyan representation ask for it, it might have to be reexamined, but we're far from this tonight.

But do we really have an alternative ? With the rebels almost anihilated, the only thing a no-fly-zone will do is allowing the rebels to maybe keep Benghazi, and allowing Gaddafi to hold everything else, rebuild his legitimacy etc...
Which means it will be a masquerade for the West, a trauma for the Libyan people, a worrying sign for other Arab countries and a humiliation for human rights diplomacy.

Trying to introduce nuance is not forbidden.

Well, this military operation is allowed to go further than a no-fly-zone, France insisted on it.

It means that it could turn Gaddafi's army down, in east and west, rebels Libyans are not only in Benghazi, most of the cities in west had fallen too. You just have to turn the army down, and the people of Libya could do the rest, they already did with a full army, they might be able with an almost destroyed one, you can make a lot of military damages from planes, missiles, and boats. That's anyhow the will of Libyans. We coordinate this with them.

[J. J.]

a terrestrial operation will be necessary. The no-fly-zone is no longer sufficient by now.

There is a gap between a no-fly-zone and a terrestrial operation. That has been all the sense of the French resolution: No Ground forces. That's the sense of this operation and an important conditions for Libyans. That is not our war. We help them. All of this is why it is not Iraq or Afghanistan. And that's why France insisted in its resolution on something further than a no-fly-zone, while making clear that it wouldn't use ground forces. Now, if it comes to be necessary and only if a Libyan representation ask for it, it might have to be reexamined, but we're far from this tonight.

But do we really have an alternative ? With the rebels almost anihilated, the only thing a no-fly-zone will do is allowing the rebels to maybe keep Benghazi, and allowing Gaddafi to hold everything else, rebuild his legitimacy etc...
Which means it will be a masquerade for the West, a trauma for the Libyan people, a worrying sign for other Arab countries and a humiliation for human rights diplomacy.

There may be no alternative.  In looking at how well "no fly zones" have worked in the past, I doubt that Qaddafi will find it too much of an impediment.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Where did this tribal war nonsense come from?

I have the same question. Some people probably try to rationalize their knee-jerk reaction to any kind of military intervention.

Do I need to remind that Libya is one of those countries, where various tribal divisions and influence of tribes are strongest?

Oh, btw, Gaddafi/opposition lines are mostly along with regional/tribal divisions.

Please learn more about Arab culture before posting.

Ahem, Qaddafi also is a murderous madman.

I guess we all are in agreement here (except of opebo)

[Antonio the Sixth]

a terrestrial operation will be necessary. The no-fly-zone is no longer sufficient by now.

There is a gap between a no-fly-zone and a terrestrial operation. That has been all the sense of the French resolution: No Ground forces. That's the sense of this operation and an important conditions for Libyans. That is not our war. We help them. All of this is why it is not Iraq or Afghanistan. And that's why France insisted in its resolution on something further than a no-fly-zone, while making clear that it wouldn't use ground forces. Now, if it comes to be necessary and only if a Libyan representation ask for it, it might have to be reexamined, but we're far from this tonight.

But do we really have an alternative ? With the rebels almost anihilated, the only thing a no-fly-zone will do is allowing the rebels to maybe keep Benghazi, and allowing Gaddafi to hold everything else, rebuild his legitimacy etc...
Which means it will be a masquerade for the West, a trauma for the Libyan people, a worrying sign for other Arab countries and a humiliation for human rights diplomacy.

Trying to introduce nuance is not forbidden.

Well, this military operation is allowed to go further than a no-fly-zone, France insisted on it.

It means that it could turn Gaddafi's army down, in east and west, rebels Libyans are not only in Benghazi, most of the cities in west had fallen too. You just have to turn the army down, and the people of Libya could do the rest, they already did with a full army, they might be able with an almost destroyed one, you can make a lot of military damages from planes, missiles, and boats. That's anyhow the will of Libyans. We coordinate this with them.

Well, this would be undoubtedly the best possible scenario.

[Boris]

I have a feeling that scumbag Steve Harper will disgustingly and shamelessly spin this to his advantage during the oh, so likely election campaign later this month. And the idiots who inhabit  Canada will gobble it all up.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2011/03/19/toronto-rally-libya.html

[Dancing with Myself]

I have been waiting for this for a long time, it's time for Khadaffi to leave

[afleitch]

I think the international community Cameron and Sarkozy have handled this situation the best they feasibly could.

Corrected.

And to think they mocked Cameron's suggestion a few weeks ago.

[Phony Moderate]

"the Cameron and Sarkozy"?

[afleitch]

"the Cameron and Sarkozy"?

Quiet you