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12th Doctor
supersoulty
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« on: November 27, 2005, 12:56:31 PM »


This is the most likely map I have seen so far.  All things being equal though, I think New Jersey and Connecticut will be more competetive.
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12th Doctor
supersoulty
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« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2005, 10:33:30 PM »

It looks like Democrats have two views of where they will make their gains - one, the frontier states (MT, WY, SD, CO, NV) and the other the Mississippi River states (MO, AR, IA) and/or rustbelt states (OH, WV, PA).

With the frontier states I would include the Eastern Seaboard (Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, Virginia, maybe even South Carolina).  I think these two go together because they are both getting immigrants from the Northeast and the Rust Belt.

I'm not sure why one would include the southern Atlantic seaboard states with the frontier, unless you mean Rust Belt states instead.

Frankly, as much as I would love to see Montana and South Dakota blue, the Rust Belt is a much more reasonable proposition.

I think the Eastern Seaboard and the Mountain West are fairly similar.  They both have a lot of immigration from the Rust Belt, causing them to develop similar politically in the future.  That's just my thinking anyway.

This is kinda counter-intuitive.  The people leaving the "rust-belt" states will likely be wealthier people.  The people who stay will either  have decent middle-class jobs, or be stuck there because of poverty.  I don't think this is going to happen, but using the model you propose, it is the most likely outcome.  Therefore, the people who leave are more likely to be libertarian minded individuals (also because of the fact that people who don't feel a connection to their roots, ie Libertarians, are more likely to leave) while those who stay are more likely to be more populist minded, with people continuing to split on economic and social issues.

I accept your outcome, because I think that the Democrats are going to start winning over more of the libertarians as time goes on.
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12th Doctor
supersoulty
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« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2005, 10:51:53 PM »



All things being equal, I think this is what the electoral map will look like in 2012.  I don't believe, however, that all things will be nearly equal.  Also, I think that 2012 will also be the breaking point of the current alignment and start our country off in a totally different direction.  I'll explain in what I invision happening over the next couple of days.
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12th Doctor
supersoulty
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Posts: 20,584
Ukraine


« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2005, 11:04:22 AM »

I used seven groups, but here you go:

This is the most likely map I have seen so far.  All things being equal though, I think New Jersey and Connecticut will be more competetive.

Why do you think Connecticut will be more competitive, Supersoulty? 2004 was a fluke because of security concerns, otherwise CT has been one of the biggest Dem-trending states in the country.

I think there is an over-all trend in the suburbs that everyone needs to watch for, and it is not an overtly political one.

As the cities have expanded, the central city has boomed, declined, and now, in many places (esspecially New York) is enjoying another boom period (it is now considered very fashionable to live in the city, if you can afford it).  At the same time, the suburbs have continued to balloon further out.  The inner-suburbs, which were once fashsionable in the 1920'-50's are now expieriencing many of the problems that were once associated with the Central City, because they lack the infrastructure and vast amounts of wealth the inner-cities enjoy, and many of the people who once lived in the Central City are now being pushed out of there by property values that are once again on the rise.

This includes both lower-middle class white families and urban minorities.  This trend is most noticable in places like Newark, Patterson and Camden, which have all seen rapid decline in the past 20 years.

If what I think will happen, eventually, happens, then all of the areas where this occures (New Jersey and Conn. being the biggest) will start to drift towards the GOP.  The reason is, Republicans have made rapid advances with the White middle-class (lower, middle and, to a lesser extent upper), thus, those areas, in particular will see a noticable trend as is.  However, there is more at work here.  The movement of high crime to the inner-ring suburbs will increase the pro-law and order/pro-populist sentiment of those living in the middle and outter ring areas, which will cause them to go more steadily Republican. 

Also, in the Northeast, there has been a long standing animosity between blacks who have been in their area since prior to the Great Depression, and those who are new comers.  The well-established blacks think (and rightly so in many cases) that "new-comers" are largely the cause of many of the problems in the black community.  I'm not just supposing here, this is a big issue in Erie, and else where.  There is a clear divide forming in the black community.  As more of these "established blacks" start to lose their anti-Republican prejudice, they will come to realize that they have quite a bit in common with the Republicans on many issues, most noticably social issues.

New Jersey and Conn. have all of the factors I mentioned, in abundance.  Thus, my prediction.
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