Concealed gun law turns 10 (Texas)
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  Concealed gun law turns 10 (Texas)
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Author Topic: Concealed gun law turns 10 (Texas)  (Read 2093 times)
Sam Spade
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« on: February 10, 2005, 01:12:41 PM »

http://www.borderlandnews.com/stories/borderland/20050207-20603.shtml

Concealed gun law turns 10

Licensing program called successful
Charles K. Wilson
El Paso Times

As the Texas Legislature gears up for the biennial legislative push, the issue of concealed weapons has become just another routine program in need of tweaking.

"When it passed, there was a big hue and cry about blood in the streets," concealed handgun permit holder Harold Shirley said of Texas' decade-old experience with letting residents carry hidden firearms. "Obviously, that hasn't happened."

Shirley is a retired sergeant major who settled in El Paso for the climate, recreational opportunities and low crime rate. And he is one of about 2,500 El Pasoans who have earned concealed handgun licenses since September 1995. Statewide, more than 225,000 Texans have concealed handgun licenses, according to the Texas Department of Public Safety, which issues the licenses.

That is more than 225,000 too many for Northeast El Pasoan Jessie Gonzalez.

Concealed handguns "are no good," she said. "You might be around children, and that's very dangerous."

She said that although concealed weapons aren't allowed in certain places and their carriers are licensed, she would still feel safer if they weren't around.

"People shouldn't be in a restaurant with a gun, period," she said. "I work in a hospital, and they don't let anybody in with a gun at all, so, yes, that's safer."

But some feel that licensees are not getting the full privileges afforded by state law.

Jaime Guillen, who teaches concealed handgun classes on the West Side, said a 2003 change to the law meant to give gun carriers access to government buildings, has been wrongfully applied by municipalities, including El Paso.

"That sign was not meant for government entities," Guillen said of the sign prohibiting concealed weapons in City Hall. "That was made for private businesses."

Guillen and others thought the fight over carrying weapons into nonexempt government buildings had ended in 2003 when the Legislature approved a "defense from prosecution" for permit carriers wearing their weapons in noncourt buildings. Cities across the state, however, have fought the exemption, including El Paso.

Assistant City Attorney Elaine Hengen said, however, that the city was within the law because a Municipal Court appeal clerk has an office inside City Hall. Concealed weapons are prohibited in courts and buildings where they have offices, Hengen said.

Guillen said the fight could be resolved by a Houston case involving the same types of signs. A victory there, he said, could lead to changes statewide.

John Hubert, who teaches concealed handgun classes on the East Side, said the Texas effort has been successful because of the class time, range time and background checks required.

However, a license is not the end of one's responsibility, he said.

"Just because you carry a gun doesn't make you proficient," he said. "Walking down the street carrying a guitar wouldn't make me a musician."

Background checks go through the Texas Department of Public Safety and include searches for felonies and misdemeanors, delinquent child-support payments, owed back taxes, and defaults on Texas education loans.

License holders must remain "clean," Guillen said, or they lose their privileges.

Ken Watters, general manager of Bassett Place, said concerns about the concealed handgun law have faded.

"I don't think it's been a huge issue in any way, shape or form," Waters said. "There was some concern initially, but it's a nonissue now."

To legally prevent a person from carrying a concealed weapon into a private business, the owner must place a sign with wording supplied by the DPS in English and Spanish in "an obvious manner clearly visible to the public."

Eastsider Luis Ahumada said he saw no problem with the nearly 10-year-old law.

"So far, there doesn't seem to be any problem with it," he said.

Ahumada had no interest in a license, though. "That's not my forte," he said.

Pancho Mangan, who attended Guillen's renewal class last week, said one of the reasons the fear over mayhem in the streets was overrated was because the classes do not promote a shoot-first mentality.

"A lot of it is why you should not shoot a gun," Mangan said as his classmates nodded in agreement. "When you discharge the weapon, there are lots of consequences, right or wrong. Ninety-nine percent (of confrontations) can be avoided with education."

In fact, Guillen's class agreed, the process of getting a concealed handgun license teaches a lot about how to avoid confrontation. Because they carry weapons, any criminal charges could bring substantially more punishment with a conviction.

With the success of the program -- 15 states have reciprocity agreements with Texas, but that does not include New Mexico -- the handgun lobby has a modest agenda for this legislative season. A five-year, instead of four-year, renewal period is being sought, as well as ability to pay fees ($140) with a personal check, Hubert said.

License holders say they are treated well by area law enforcement. Indeed, they said, area law officers are usually the only ones who can spot the subtle signs of a hidden firearm.

But the biggest reason the program is a success, Guillen said, is that the program prevents crime from happening.

Shirley, who has had his license since 1996, agreed.

"I've had to show (my weapon) three times," he said. "But I didn't have to use it. And that's the way it is in almost all cases."
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John Dibble
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« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2005, 01:26:14 PM »

Good news. All states should have concealed carry.
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David S
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« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2005, 02:45:38 PM »

http://www.borderlandnews.com/stories/borderland/20050207-20603.shtml

Concealed gun law turns 10

Licensing program called successful
Charles K. Wilson
El Paso Times

As the Texas Legislature gears up for the biennial legislative push, the issue of concealed weapons has become just another routine program in need of tweaking.

"When it passed, there was a big hue and cry about blood in the streets," concealed handgun permit holder Harold Shirley said of Texas' decade-old experience with letting residents carry hidden firearms. "Obviously, that hasn't happened."

Shirley is a retired sergeant major who settled in El Paso for the climate, recreational opportunities and low crime rate. And he is one of about 2,500 El Pasoans who have earned concealed handgun licenses since September 1995. Statewide, more than 225,000 Texans have concealed handgun licenses, according to the Texas Department of Public Safety, which issues the licenses.

That is more than 225,000 too many for Northeast El Pasoan Jessie Gonzalez.

Concealed handguns "are no good," she said. "You might be around children, and that's very dangerous."

She said that although concealed weapons aren't allowed in certain places and their carriers are licensed, she would still feel safer if they weren't around.

"People shouldn't be in a restaurant with a gun, period," she said. "I work in a hospital, and they don't let anybody in with a gun at all, so, yes, that's safer."

But some feel that licensees are not getting the full privileges afforded by state law.

Jaime Guillen, who teaches concealed handgun classes on the West Side, said a 2003 change to the law meant to give gun carriers access to government buildings, has been wrongfully applied by municipalities, including El Paso.

"That sign was not meant for government entities," Guillen said of the sign prohibiting concealed weapons in City Hall. "That was made for private businesses."

Guillen and others thought the fight over carrying weapons into nonexempt government buildings had ended in 2003 when the Legislature approved a "defense from prosecution" for permit carriers wearing their weapons in noncourt buildings. Cities across the state, however, have fought the exemption, including El Paso.

Assistant City Attorney Elaine Hengen said, however, that the city was within the law because a Municipal Court appeal clerk has an office inside City Hall. Concealed weapons are prohibited in courts and buildings where they have offices, Hengen said.

Guillen said the fight could be resolved by a Houston case involving the same types of signs. A victory there, he said, could lead to changes statewide.

John Hubert, who teaches concealed handgun classes on the East Side, said the Texas effort has been successful because of the class time, range time and background checks required.

However, a license is not the end of one's responsibility, he said.

"Just because you carry a gun doesn't make you proficient," he said. "Walking down the street carrying a guitar wouldn't make me a musician."

Background checks go through the Texas Department of Public Safety and include searches for felonies and misdemeanors, delinquent child-support payments, owed back taxes, and defaults on Texas education loans.

License holders must remain "clean," Guillen said, or they lose their privileges.

Ken Watters, general manager of Bassett Place, said concerns about the concealed handgun law have faded.

"I don't think it's been a huge issue in any way, shape or form," Waters said. "There was some concern initially, but it's a nonissue now."

To legally prevent a person from carrying a concealed weapon into a private business, the owner must place a sign with wording supplied by the DPS in English and Spanish in "an obvious manner clearly visible to the public."

Eastsider Luis Ahumada said he saw no problem with the nearly 10-year-old law.

"So far, there doesn't seem to be any problem with it," he said.

Ahumada had no interest in a license, though. "That's not my forte," he said.

Pancho Mangan, who attended Guillen's renewal class last week, said one of the reasons the fear over mayhem in the streets was overrated was because the classes do not promote a shoot-first mentality.

"A lot of it is why you should not shoot a gun," Mangan said as his classmates nodded in agreement. "When you discharge the weapon, there are lots of consequences, right or wrong. Ninety-nine percent (of confrontations) can be avoided with education."

In fact, Guillen's class agreed, the process of getting a concealed handgun license teaches a lot about how to avoid confrontation. Because they carry weapons, any criminal charges could bring substantially more punishment with a conviction.

With the success of the program -- 15 states have reciprocity agreements with Texas, but that does not include New Mexico -- the handgun lobby has a modest agenda for this legislative season. A five-year, instead of four-year, renewal period is being sought, as well as ability to pay fees ($140) with a personal check, Hubert said.

License holders say they are treated well by area law enforcement. Indeed, they said, area law officers are usually the only ones who can spot the subtle signs of a hidden firearm.

But the biggest reason the program is a success, Guillen said, is that the program prevents crime from happening.

Shirley, who has had his license since 1996, agreed.

"I've had to show (my weapon) three times," he said. "But I didn't have to use it. And that's the way it is in almost all cases."

Good article.  That story seems to be repeated pretty much everywhere where concealed carry has been allowed. 
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Storebought
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« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2005, 02:49:19 PM »

I don't really believe in having concealed guns. It's too damn sneaky. Now, openly revealed guns, such as rifle racks or the guns men wore as part of their suits back in the 1880s, are another story.
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David S
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« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2005, 03:10:15 PM »

I don't really believe in having concealed guns. It's too damn sneaky. Now, openly revealed guns, such as rifle racks or the guns men wore as part of their suits back in the 1880s, are another story.

Concealed is the best way to go for two reasons:
1) It leaves the crooks guessing as to who is armed and who is not.
2) People who are afraid of guns have a right to not be afraid. If they don't see the guns they don't worry about them.
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