Erasing the Confederacy -How Far Would you Go?

[Mr. Reactionary]

I was informed someone is gonna errect a 20 ft tall confederate monument near one of the main bridges in my town. Unfortunately for them they are gonna need a special use permit which requires city council.

[P. Clodius Pulcher did nothing wrong]

The rebel flag is not only a symbol of hatred and racism (and not heritage), but it's also a symbol of an armed, organized insurrection against the United States of America. As a patriot, I think flying it, even on private property, should be banned. I also would support all the other choices in the poll.

This "Southern pride" flag thing should have been nipped in the bud over a century ago, and now we're paying the price for tolerating treason and rebellion

[Mr. Reactionary]

As a patriot, I think flying it, even on private property, should be banned.

Claims to be a patriot ... opposes the bill of rights.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

As a patriot, I think flying it, even on private property, should be banned.

Claims to be a patriot ... opposes the bill of rights.

Article III Section 3 Clause 1

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The CSA was an enemy of the USA during its entire existence, and the principles for which it stood continue to be antithetical to the USA.  The Bill of Rights does not include the right to engage in treasonous speech.

[Mr. Reactionary]

As a patriot, I think flying it, even on private property, should be banned.

Claims to be a patriot ... opposes the bill of rights.

Article III Section 3 Clause 1

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The CSA was an enemy of the USA during its entire existence, and the principles for which it stood continue to be antithetical to the USA.  The Bill of Rights does not include the right to engage in treasonous speech.

Yes it does. Not that flying a flag whose meaning is subjective from person to person is treasonous speech. Plus in this specific case, we are not at war with anyone who uses that flag, and flying it is in to way giving aid or comfort to the enemy.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

As a patriot, I think flying it, even on private property, should be banned.

Claims to be a patriot ... opposes the bill of rights.

Article III Section 3 Clause 1

You must be logged in to read this quote.

The CSA was an enemy of the USA during its entire existence, and the principles for which it stood continue to be antithetical to the USA.  The Bill of Rights does not include the right to engage in treasonous speech.

Yes it does. Not that flying a flag whose meaning is subjective from person to person is treasonous speech. Plus in this specific case, we are not at war with anyone who uses that flag, and flying it is in to way giving aid or comfort to the enemy.

We never had a peace treaty with the Traitorous government.  We did give pardon to those who abjured their treason, but clearly if you are wanting to fly a banner, you aren't abjuring them.  You're embracing their causes, and the whole reason the Confederacy came to be was the preservation and advancement of racial slavery.  Being Southern doesn't mean you have to be Confederate, which is mistake made all too often by those on all sides of the issues of Southern identity.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

There is precisely nothing treasonous about a private citizen flying the Stars and Bars in Anno Domini 2018. I'd rather support an individual's right to free expression, than back the wrong-headed, alarmist position of someone who is ignorant of broader historical realities.

When I see this kind of stupidity being pushed, it's usually from Yankees North of the Mason-Dixon Line.

Flying the Stars and Bars is not something I would ever do but I respect the right of a law-abiding citizen to disagree with that.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

And for the record I am not disagreeing with Ernest on the nature of the Confederacy itself - but I do think that the fact is that there's a massive difference between, say, being on the level of Jesse Bright, and flying the Stars and Bars today.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

When I see this kind of stupidity being pushed, it's usually from Yankees North of the Mason-Dixon Line.

Of course. We won, and are thus divorced from anachronistic sympathies for a despotic, ill-fated slaveocracy.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

When I see this kind of stupidity being pushed, it's usually from Yankees North of the Mason-Dixon Line.

Of course. We won, and are thus divorced from anachronistic sympathies for a despotic, ill-fated slaveocracy.

Well the Confederacy was a bunch of Southern states that spent years in mental asylum (with their problems getting worse every minute) thanks to problems inherent in protecting and supporting the institution on which they had staked their society and economy.

The North won the war for much the same reason why the Bolsheviks won the Russian Civil War - they had the factories, and most of the population.

[America Needs a 13-6 Progressive SCOTUS]

I remember seeing a listing on a dumb twitter posts at one time, and some idiot bought a Confederate Flag, and posted "I hope this is the UK Flag, because if not, then I just wasted my money".

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

And for the record I am not disagreeing with Ernest on the nature of the Confederacy itself - but I do think that the fact is that there's a massive difference between, say, being on the level of Jesse Bright, and flying the Stars and Bars today.

And for the record, I think such a ban wouldn't be a good policy, tho flying that flag in anything other than very limited historical contexts can't reasonably interpreted as anything other than an endorsement of white supremacy.

The South is not the Confederacy and those who both oppose and support white supremacy who try to equate the two are simultaneously insulting the South and praising the Confederacy.

[Kingpoleon]

I have a Confederate flag sticker on my car right now.  It's all about loving the old ways of doing things

The “old way” being the suppression of women, African-Americans, and other minority groups?

[Kyle Rittenhouse is a Political Prisoner]

And for the record I am not disagreeing with Ernest on the nature of the Confederacy itself - but I do think that the fact is that there's a massive difference between, say, being on the level of Jesse Bright, and flying the Stars and Bars today.

And for the record, I think such a ban wouldn't be a good policy, tho flying that flag in anything other than very limited historical contexts can't reasonably interpreted as anything other than an endorsement of white supremacy.

The South is not the Confederacy and those who both oppose and support white supremacy who try to equate the two are simultaneously insulting the South and praising the Confederacy.

[Consciously Unconscious]

I definitely believe that the confederate flag should not appear on public grounds, at that confederate liscense plates should not be issues.  While many of the rest are gray areas, I wouldn't oppose a community taking down confederate monuments.  To be honest, I didn't really realize there were confederate holidays, so I doubt many people would miss them if they were gone.  As for renaming everything, I guess I don't really see the point. Every other street in the south is named after a confederate, and this one could get out of hand fairly quickly as we begin to view historical figures differently.  Private citizens should have the right to fly the flag though, even though it's pretty despicable. 

[Indy Texas]

Only option 1.

People need to experience history in order to not repeat it.

Because Germans drive up and down Adolf Hitler Parkway in Berlin, or else they might do another Holocaust.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

When I see this kind of stupidity being pushed, it's usually from Yankees North of the Mason-Dixon Line.

Of course. We won, and are thus divorced from anachronistic sympathies for a despotic, ill-fated slaveocracy.

Well the Confederacy was a bunch of Southern states that spent years in mental asylum (with their problems getting worse every minute) thanks to problems inherent in protecting and supporting the institution on which they had staked their society and economy.

The North won the war for much the same reason why the Bolsheviks won the Russian Civil War - they had the factories, and most of the population.

Gee, you almost make it sound like erecting a treasonous government to defend slavery was actually a bad idea, and hurt the common Southerner in the long run! So curious then that people seem to think the CSA was on their side.

[Frodo]

A panel of historians have sent a report to the Richmond City Council recommending pulling down the statue of Jefferson Davis, but leaving the others up along Monument Avenue, though not without adding appropriate context to them:

Monument Avenue Commission: Remove Jefferson Davis monument, reinterpret others honoring Confederacy

Thoughts?

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

A panel of historians have sent a report to the Richmond City Council recommending pulling down the statue of Jefferson Davis, but leaving the others up along Monument Avenue, though not without adding appropriate context to them:

Monument Avenue Commission: Remove Jefferson Davis monument, reinterpret others honoring Confederacy

Thoughts?

Davis is the only non-Virginian monument there.

[American_Aristocracy]

Fun fact: the official "confederate" flag is acctually the Virginia battle flag used by the confederacy. It ticks me off so much that I wish schools would use the actual flag that the confederate states of America used to declare their independence and not Virginia's battle flag.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Fun fact: the official "confederate" flag is actually the Virginia battle flag used by the confederacy. It ticks me off so much that I wish schools would use the actual flag that the confederate states of America used to declare their independence and not Virginia's battle flag.

The CSA never declared independence.  Rather each state that seceded declared independence and then the first seven to do so got together to form the CSA.  Fairly easy for them to do as they used the Federal Constitution and laws as their blueprint.  Of course, they made a few tweaks such as being honest about calling slaves "slaves" instead of "other Persons".  Unlike their descendants, those who seceded were proud about the fact they did so to ensure the right of white men to own African slaves would not be impaired.

[Higgins]

Removing memorials from public grounds, removing Confederate History Month, things along that line.

I would not remove street or base names because some of the names are rather cool. I would not want to rename Fort Hood or Fort Benning for example. Their names are just too cool and have too much history behind them besides the Confederacy. If a state votes to include the Confederate flag somewhere in a license, that is their right. If an idiot wants to display it publicly, that is also their right.

[Wazza [INACTIVE]]

I think these are issues that should be left to the states with the exception of 6 which is a blatant violation of the 1st amendment. If I was a politician on the state level I'd support option 1 though.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Neither of the option presented counts as "erasing". Erasing the confederacy would mean suppressing the knowledge and memory of its existence. What we're discussing is repudiating it, just like (Godwin alert) removing all Nazi symbolic after the WWII was to repudiate that system, not to pretend it never existed.

And yes, it should go all the way down to prohibiting confederage rag being flown on private properties. A guy flowing a Nazi flag on his own backyard in German would have a prosecutor on his ass and rightly so.

[Tartarus Sauce]

Neither of the option presented counts as "erasing". Erasing the confederacy would mean suppressing the knowledge and memory of its existence. What we're discussing is repudiating it, just like (Godwin alert) removing all Nazi symbolic after the WWII was to repudiate that system, not to pretend it never existed.

This is the most annoying aspect of confederate monument defenders who scream "LIBS ARE ERASING HISTORY." Monuments are not vessels of historical knowledge so much as they are vessels of historical narratives. If you want to learn about the Confederacy, you can pick up a book about it anytime. It's a stupid argument for stupid people who only understand history through the lens of what society glorifies most publicly, which is exactly why people want the monuments to come down; they romanticize an atrocious cause completely disconnected from today's values and distort peoples' understanding of their own country's history.