SENATE BILL: Animal Protection Act (Law'd) (user search)
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  SENATE BILL: Animal Protection Act (Law'd) (search mode)
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Author Topic: SENATE BILL: Animal Protection Act (Law'd)  (Read 6685 times)
HagridOfTheDeep
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,754
Canada


Political Matrix
E: -6.19, S: -4.35

« on: February 06, 2013, 05:42:15 PM »

Well, I used the all or nothing argument. And banning "all" would be a huge infringement on personal freedom, which also formed the cornerstone of my argument in favour of the Freedom to Eat Act. There's no way I can support this.
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HagridOfTheDeep
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,754
Canada


Political Matrix
E: -6.19, S: -4.35

« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2013, 01:06:56 AM »

Nay

The initial version will never pass. This might. And there are some pretty problematic sections (like Section 3).
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HagridOfTheDeep
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,754
Canada


Political Matrix
E: -6.19, S: -4.35

« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2013, 06:40:55 PM »
« Edited: February 11, 2013, 06:53:08 PM by HagridOfTheDeep »

I will be offering a conservative alternative that will likely be found unfriendly. But I've gotta do it—there are a few things in this new bill that I think would unnecessarily work against the economic interests of our society.

Also, would it be wise to define what an "animal" actually is? What about insects and bugs? Or household pests? Would Raid Ant Killer and mousetraps now be considered illegal? I wonder if it might be worth working in a few more exceptions...
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HagridOfTheDeep
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,754
Canada


Political Matrix
E: -6.19, S: -4.35

« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2013, 03:23:49 PM »

Here are some suggestions (sorry if I compromised the formatting)...

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I made the change in section III, subsection 3(a) because I think it presents quite a few challenges. What counts as mutilation? Who decides whether mutilation is “needless?” I think here of farmers who remove the tails of young lambs. I’m not exactly sure why it’s done, but it’s just the way things have worked for a long time. Maybe we’d consider making specific exceptions for young animals.

I also altered part of section III, subsection 3(c). Honestly I don’t really even understand what you mean by the section I crossed out. Is putting a sweater on a dog considered “conveying an animal in a human manner?” I don’t want people getting in trouble for things that aren’t really that terrible.

The next change may also be contentious: I changed the fine you specified in section III, subsection 4. I do not believe in fining people based on percentages of their wealth or income. I believe in dollar amounts. It doesn’t have to be $10,000 (I just took it from Canada’s Criminal Code), but it ought to be something specific. People with no wealth or income shouldn’t be exempt, and people with lots of income shouldn’t be forced to hand over millions of dollars for animal cruelty. One dollar still has a value that we shouldn’t ignore when setting fines. I think Senator Franzl (or maybe it was Marokai) proposed a similar scheme for traffic fines a few months ago. I fought it vigorously—I don’t want police to start cracking down on rich people because they know they can get more income for their region out of it.

Another controversial change: section IV, subsection 2. Using growth hormones in farm animals is now enshrined in factory farming and meat production. It is permitted in Canada and the United States, and probably most other places too. I agree that antibiotics should only be used upon receiving prescriptions from veterinarians (human deaths can be linked to the use of antibiotics in animals—hard numbers, too), but I think the picture is murkier with hormones. Prohibiting the use of growth hormones would be an economic setback to many companies.

Also, I’m wondering whether section VI is a little too strict, but I’m not really sure what to do about it. Anyhow, those were most of the changes I’d make (aside from defining “animal” and “cruel” and making exceptions for the extermination of household pests).
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HagridOfTheDeep
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,754
Canada


Political Matrix
E: -6.19, S: -4.35

« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2013, 03:53:55 PM »

I certainly support the passage of the amendment. I still remain unsure on the growth hormones. I may be a downer and still introduce it later if enough people indicate that they agree with me in the interim.
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HagridOfTheDeep
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,754
Canada


Political Matrix
E: -6.19, S: -4.35

« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2013, 03:38:15 PM »

Doesn't section VI, subsection 3 do that?
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HagridOfTheDeep
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,754
Canada


Political Matrix
E: -6.19, S: -4.35

« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2013, 10:25:26 PM »

Everything is acceptable to me too... with the exception of the ban on growth hormones. I'm still torn, and torn enough that it could be a deal-breaker.

Re: exemptions for pest control: I feel like the bill would allow these practices to continue without interruption, but I don't know if that's concrete enough for everyone to be confident. I'm willing to see if we can get away with text as is, but if anyone else wants to clearly spell out this exemption, I won't object.
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HagridOfTheDeep
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,754
Canada


Political Matrix
E: -6.19, S: -4.35

« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2013, 12:19:37 PM »

Aye
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HagridOfTheDeep
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,754
Canada


Political Matrix
E: -6.19, S: -4.35

« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2013, 03:31:57 PM »

Aye
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