Puerto Rico status referendum - June 11

[Blackacre]

Besides, while adding PR as a state would break the "50 states, a hundred Senators" even number thing, it would make all 3 Senate classes equally sized. Right now Class 3 has 34 Senators, and the others have 33. PR would get a Class 1 and a Class 2 Senator (like Montana and Maine) and that would balance out the three Senate classes. It would also probably make the electoral college total an odd number, making a two-way tie impossible

[KingSweden]

Puerto Rico, if it votes for statehood, should be accepted as our 51st state. Full stop. I think there are fair arguments against statehood for D.C. and some of the smaller Pacific territories, primarily that we already have too many tiny states who wield outsized influence in the Senate over more populous ones

I can understand some arguments against statehood for DC but I am 100% behind 2 Senators/1 Rep for the district. If they can't get that, which would take a Constitutional amendment, then statehood is the only option and it shouldn't be denied. Although, reasonable levels of autonomy for DC is also an issue statehood would solve. Right now, Congress meddles far too much in their business.

As for the various territories - that is a good point, and I would argue that maybe they deserve representation as a whole, meaning 2 Senators / 1 Rep to represent all the territories. I'm unsure if Puerto Rico should be lumped in together with them, but looking at the combined population of the other territories - Roughly ~375,000 going by Wikipedia, I can see an argument for it at least.

Either way, I still think something should be done. I don't think anyone in America should be deprived of representation like this.

That's an interesting solution I hadn't thought of. It could get tricky with the vast geography of the territories, but you could always merge the USVI to PR and solve part of that problem.

In the near future, I support major self-rule devolution for D.C. Which would solve many of their budget/planning problems. Get Congress out of everything but a handful of matters in the District

[Rjjr77]

Someone everyone here should watch on Puerto Rico and its current fiscal issues:

https://www.facebook.com/perolike/videos/1171383482949041/

Note: I don't condone the idea that PR's status should be decided on the fiscally detrimental effects of its rigged market relations with the mainland. Puerto Rico should be given statehood because it is big enough, population-wise, and because its citizens are natural-born Americans who, overall, want statehood. There should not be a lesser class of American citizens depending on what U.S. soil they're standing on. It's as simple as that.

The jones act is a real issue for inflated prices, but it's a drop in the bucket for their problems. This is a beautiful place with no federal income tax, it should do far better. Their problems are not the jones act, their problems are horrific mismanagement and rampant corruption.

The Jones act is a horrifically large part of the problem. Yes, there is administrative mismanagement and corruption, but that is all over many states as well.

Not paying Federal taxes is actually hindering the island's economy because Puerto Rico is not considered a part of the general budget, as the states are, which means it can't fully benefit from federal funds. (Think of states that receive more than they pay, e.g. Alabama).

Imagine having to pay $7 for a gallon of milk (not kidding here) or much more for gas, etc. because of it. It just dampers the entire flow of the economy from the bottom up.

There is also the fact that a great number of mega chains, like Walmart and Walgreen's, have put all the local small businesses out of business, which leaves few other options from where residents can get their products. What does this mean? It means that almost all of the profit made by these companies does not circulate in the local economy, but is rather exported as if it were foreign capital back to the mainland. This also slows down the economy because it's like poking a hole in a bag of sand that's almost out of sand to begin with.

Part of the 7$ for milk isn't the jones act, it's the 11% sales tax.

Islands are more expensive, hawaii deals with the jones act and isn't Defaulting on its debt

They are so inept they can't collect almost half of their taxes, while overpaying public employees and continuing to issue bonds

11% sales tax for $7 is just a little over 7 cents; come on now.

Yes, islands are more expensive, but Hawai'i is a state so you can't possibly make a fair comparison.

They have no other option but to issue bonds since they can't do anything to restructure or renegotiate the debt. They can't even default. They could fire every single employee, and it wouldn't change a thing other than destroying whatever is left of the economy.

11% sales tax on 7 dollars is 77 cents.
Yes milk is expensive, it's only 60 cents cheaper in the Virgin Islands, who doesn't have a jones act requirement...

And they have tons of options on their debt... Nothing is stopping Puerto Rico from restructuring their debt. Nothing. In fact the federal government had to force a committee to do it for them (they did not need federal permission to restructure their debt)
Nothing is stopping Puerto Rico from renegotiating their debt (they did it with most loans in 2014, but of course they did it by issuing more bonds)

You also say they cannot default, Odd they've defaulted twice on debt (2014, 2016).

The problem is Puerto Rico's solution to their fiscal woes has been to borrow more money and now they have no cash to pay the bills.

Yes on the taxes, fixed the number above.

Your argument for denying statehood to PR is nil to begin with anyways. American citizens on American soil that is not D.C. want statehood. They should get it. If we're going to start precluding statehood to fiscal prosperity, then we should start jettisoning fiscally-challenged states from the union. Do we start with Kansas?

I think we as a country cannot afford to take on PR as a state in their current situation, they have to fix their economy first. We'd be adding a state that would be in the worst financial state of any state in US history.

And boy, false equivalence hard core on your second point.

Kansas (and others looking at you Illinois) are already states kicking a state out is far different than allowing a state in.

[Heisenberg]

I support independence, but I don't think it's too popular over there.

[Shadows]

This colonization stuff is pathetic though, autocratic, dictator-like & beyond ultra communism. Except PR as a state or give independence!

[Dr. Arch]

Someone everyone here should watch on Puerto Rico and its current fiscal issues:

https://www.facebook.com/perolike/videos/1171383482949041/

Note: I don't condone the idea that PR's status should be decided on the fiscally detrimental effects of its rigged market relations with the mainland. Puerto Rico should be given statehood because it is big enough, population-wise, and because its citizens are natural-born Americans who, overall, want statehood. There should not be a lesser class of American citizens depending on what U.S. soil they're standing on. It's as simple as that.

The jones act is a real issue for inflated prices, but it's a drop in the bucket for their problems. This is a beautiful place with no federal income tax, it should do far better. Their problems are not the jones act, their problems are horrific mismanagement and rampant corruption.

The Jones act is a horrifically large part of the problem. Yes, there is administrative mismanagement and corruption, but that is all over many states as well.

Not paying Federal taxes is actually hindering the island's economy because Puerto Rico is not considered a part of the general budget, as the states are, which means it can't fully benefit from federal funds. (Think of states that receive more than they pay, e.g. Alabama).

Imagine having to pay $7 for a gallon of milk (not kidding here) or much more for gas, etc. because of it. It just dampers the entire flow of the economy from the bottom up.

There is also the fact that a great number of mega chains, like Walmart and Walgreen's, have put all the local small businesses out of business, which leaves few other options from where residents can get their products. What does this mean? It means that almost all of the profit made by these companies does not circulate in the local economy, but is rather exported as if it were foreign capital back to the mainland. This also slows down the economy because it's like poking a hole in a bag of sand that's almost out of sand to begin with.

Part of the 7$ for milk isn't the jones act, it's the 11% sales tax.

Islands are more expensive, hawaii deals with the jones act and isn't Defaulting on its debt

They are so inept they can't collect almost half of their taxes, while overpaying public employees and continuing to issue bonds

11% sales tax for $7 is just a little over 7 cents; come on now.

Yes, islands are more expensive, but Hawai'i is a state so you can't possibly make a fair comparison.

They have no other option but to issue bonds since they can't do anything to restructure or renegotiate the debt. They can't even default. They could fire every single employee, and it wouldn't change a thing other than destroying whatever is left of the economy.

11% sales tax on 7 dollars is 77 cents.
Yes milk is expensive, it's only 60 cents cheaper in the Virgin Islands, who doesn't have a jones act requirement...

And they have tons of options on their debt... Nothing is stopping Puerto Rico from restructuring their debt. Nothing. In fact the federal government had to force a committee to do it for them (they did not need federal permission to restructure their debt)
Nothing is stopping Puerto Rico from renegotiating their debt (they did it with most loans in 2014, but of course they did it by issuing more bonds)

You also say they cannot default, Odd they've defaulted twice on debt (2014, 2016).

The problem is Puerto Rico's solution to their fiscal woes has been to borrow more money and now they have no cash to pay the bills.

Yes on the taxes, fixed the number above.

Your argument for denying statehood to PR is nil to begin with anyways. American citizens on American soil that is not D.C. want statehood. They should get it. If we're going to start precluding statehood to fiscal prosperity, then we should start jettisoning fiscally-challenged states from the union. Do we start with Kansas?

I think we as a country cannot afford to take on PR as a state in their current situation, they have to fix their economy first. We'd be adding a state that would be in the worst financial state of any state in US history.

And boy, false equivalence hard core on your second point.

Kansas (and others looking at you Illinois) are already states kicking a state out is far different than allowing a state in.

False equivalence my ass. We're American citizens and denying statehood is practically the same as kicking out a state from the union and making it a commonwealth territory again with no representation. One of the richest empires in the history of mankind can certainly "afford" to correct such a vile political state in which its citizens live. The economy argument is stupid, quite frankly. The above mentioned reasons are enough, period.

[Rjjr77]

Someone everyone here should watch on Puerto Rico and its current fiscal issues:

https://www.facebook.com/perolike/videos/1171383482949041/

Note: I don't condone the idea that PR's status should be decided on the fiscally detrimental effects of its rigged market relations with the mainland. Puerto Rico should be given statehood because it is big enough, population-wise, and because its citizens are natural-born Americans who, overall, want statehood. There should not be a lesser class of American citizens depending on what U.S. soil they're standing on. It's as simple as that.

The jones act is a real issue for inflated prices, but it's a drop in the bucket for their problems. This is a beautiful place with no federal income tax, it should do far better. Their problems are not the jones act, their problems are horrific mismanagement and rampant corruption.

The Jones act is a horrifically large part of the problem. Yes, there is administrative mismanagement and corruption, but that is all over many states as well.

Not paying Federal taxes is actually hindering the island's economy because Puerto Rico is not considered a part of the general budget, as the states are, which means it can't fully benefit from federal funds. (Think of states that receive more than they pay, e.g. Alabama).

Imagine having to pay $7 for a gallon of milk (not kidding here) or much more for gas, etc. because of it. It just dampers the entire flow of the economy from the bottom up.

There is also the fact that a great number of mega chains, like Walmart and Walgreen's, have put all the local small businesses out of business, which leaves few other options from where residents can get their products. What does this mean? It means that almost all of the profit made by these companies does not circulate in the local economy, but is rather exported as if it were foreign capital back to the mainland. This also slows down the economy because it's like poking a hole in a bag of sand that's almost out of sand to begin with.

Part of the 7$ for milk isn't the jones act, it's the 11% sales tax.

Islands are more expensive, hawaii deals with the jones act and isn't Defaulting on its debt

They are so inept they can't collect almost half of their taxes, while overpaying public employees and continuing to issue bonds

11% sales tax for $7 is just a little over 7 cents; come on now.

Yes, islands are more expensive, but Hawai'i is a state so you can't possibly make a fair comparison.

They have no other option but to issue bonds since they can't do anything to restructure or renegotiate the debt. They can't even default. They could fire every single employee, and it wouldn't change a thing other than destroying whatever is left of the economy.

11% sales tax on 7 dollars is 77 cents.
Yes milk is expensive, it's only 60 cents cheaper in the Virgin Islands, who doesn't have a jones act requirement...

And they have tons of options on their debt... Nothing is stopping Puerto Rico from restructuring their debt. Nothing. In fact the federal government had to force a committee to do it for them (they did not need federal permission to restructure their debt)
Nothing is stopping Puerto Rico from renegotiating their debt (they did it with most loans in 2014, but of course they did it by issuing more bonds)

You also say they cannot default, Odd they've defaulted twice on debt (2014, 2016).

The problem is Puerto Rico's solution to their fiscal woes has been to borrow more money and now they have no cash to pay the bills.

Yes on the taxes, fixed the number above.

Your argument for denying statehood to PR is nil to begin with anyways. American citizens on American soil that is not D.C. want statehood. They should get it. If we're going to start precluding statehood to fiscal prosperity, then we should start jettisoning fiscally-challenged states from the union. Do we start with Kansas?

I think we as a country cannot afford to take on PR as a state in their current situation, they have to fix their economy first. We'd be adding a state that would be in the worst financial state of any state in US history.

And boy, false equivalence hard core on your second point.

Kansas (and others looking at you Illinois) are already states kicking a state out is far different than allowing a state in.

False equivalence my ass. We're American citizens and denying statehood is practically the same as kicking out a state from the union and making it a commonwealth territory again with no representation. One of the richest empires in the history of mankind can certainly "afford" to correct such a vile political state in which its citizens live. The economy argument is stupid, quite frankly. The above mentioned reasons are enough, period.

Not even close to the same thing. Not even close.

I hate to break it to you but we are not one of the richest empires in the history of mankind, and aren't even in as good fiscal shape as we were 25 years ago.

How can we correct it? Bail out Puerto Rico for 100 billion dollars? Because we aren't trillions in debt with no end in sight? A federal bailout of Puerto Rico would hurt the federal debt rating, while creating an obscene precedent.

And a part that's missing in this whole argument is adding Puerto Rico as a state makes them subject to federal income tax, something that isn't going to make anything in that economy better.

You can pander all you want about what is just, and that's a nice argument, but it doesn't change the reality of the situation. Puerto Rico needs to get their debt under control, it's no different than what the EU demands of their members. The worst part of it is Puerto Rico is showing no signs of doing it. You and other posters have posted a lot of false statements about the debt problems in Puerto Rico, and then jump back to more qualitative arguments, that's perfectly fine, but Puerto Rico is bankrupt, they don't have cash on hand to make basic payments and adding them just means tax payers who've never been to Puerto Rico have to pay to fix it.

Let me posit this question, give me a non-political benefit to the US admitting Puerto Rico as a state?

[Dr. Arch]

Someone everyone here should watch on Puerto Rico and its current fiscal issues:

https://www.facebook.com/perolike/videos/1171383482949041/

Note: I don't condone the idea that PR's status should be decided on the fiscally detrimental effects of its rigged market relations with the mainland. Puerto Rico should be given statehood because it is big enough, population-wise, and because its citizens are natural-born Americans who, overall, want statehood. There should not be a lesser class of American citizens depending on what U.S. soil they're standing on. It's as simple as that.

The jones act is a real issue for inflated prices, but it's a drop in the bucket for their problems. This is a beautiful place with no federal income tax, it should do far better. Their problems are not the jones act, their problems are horrific mismanagement and rampant corruption.

The Jones act is a horrifically large part of the problem. Yes, there is administrative mismanagement and corruption, but that is all over many states as well.

Not paying Federal taxes is actually hindering the island's economy because Puerto Rico is not considered a part of the general budget, as the states are, which means it can't fully benefit from federal funds. (Think of states that receive more than they pay, e.g. Alabama).

Imagine having to pay $7 for a gallon of milk (not kidding here) or much more for gas, etc. because of it. It just dampers the entire flow of the economy from the bottom up.

There is also the fact that a great number of mega chains, like Walmart and Walgreen's, have put all the local small businesses out of business, which leaves few other options from where residents can get their products. What does this mean? It means that almost all of the profit made by these companies does not circulate in the local economy, but is rather exported as if it were foreign capital back to the mainland. This also slows down the economy because it's like poking a hole in a bag of sand that's almost out of sand to begin with.

Part of the 7$ for milk isn't the jones act, it's the 11% sales tax.

Islands are more expensive, hawaii deals with the jones act and isn't Defaulting on its debt

They are so inept they can't collect almost half of their taxes, while overpaying public employees and continuing to issue bonds

11% sales tax for $7 is just a little over 7 cents; come on now.

Yes, islands are more expensive, but Hawai'i is a state so you can't possibly make a fair comparison.

They have no other option but to issue bonds since they can't do anything to restructure or renegotiate the debt. They can't even default. They could fire every single employee, and it wouldn't change a thing other than destroying whatever is left of the economy.

11% sales tax on 7 dollars is 77 cents.
Yes milk is expensive, it's only 60 cents cheaper in the Virgin Islands, who doesn't have a jones act requirement...

And they have tons of options on their debt... Nothing is stopping Puerto Rico from restructuring their debt. Nothing. In fact the federal government had to force a committee to do it for them (they did not need federal permission to restructure their debt)
Nothing is stopping Puerto Rico from renegotiating their debt (they did it with most loans in 2014, but of course they did it by issuing more bonds)

You also say they cannot default, Odd they've defaulted twice on debt (2014, 2016).

The problem is Puerto Rico's solution to their fiscal woes has been to borrow more money and now they have no cash to pay the bills.

Yes on the taxes, fixed the number above.

Your argument for denying statehood to PR is nil to begin with anyways. American citizens on American soil that is not D.C. want statehood. They should get it. If we're going to start precluding statehood to fiscal prosperity, then we should start jettisoning fiscally-challenged states from the union. Do we start with Kansas?

I think we as a country cannot afford to take on PR as a state in their current situation, they have to fix their economy first. We'd be adding a state that would be in the worst financial state of any state in US history.

And boy, false equivalence hard core on your second point.

Kansas (and others looking at you Illinois) are already states kicking a state out is far different than allowing a state in.

False equivalence my ass. We're American citizens and denying statehood is practically the same as kicking out a state from the union and making it a commonwealth territory again with no representation. One of the richest empires in the history of mankind can certainly "afford" to correct such a vile political state in which its citizens live. The economy argument is stupid, quite frankly. The above mentioned reasons are enough, period.

Not even close to the same thing. Not even close.

I hate to break it to you but we are not one of the richest empires in the history of mankind, and aren't even in as good fiscal shape as we were 25 years ago.

How can we correct it? Bail out Puerto Rico for 100 billion dollars? Because we aren't trillions in debt with no end in sight? A federal bailout of Puerto Rico would hurt the federal debt rating, while creating an obscene precedent.

And a part that's missing in this whole argument is adding Puerto Rico as a state makes them subject to federal income tax, something that isn't going to make anything in that economy better.

You can pander all you want about what is just, and that's a nice argument, but it doesn't change the reality of the situation. Puerto Rico needs to get their debt under control, it's no different than what the EU demands of their members. The worst part of it is Puerto Rico is showing no signs of doing it. You and other posters have posted a lot of false statements about the debt problems in Puerto Rico, and then jump back to more qualitative arguments, that's perfectly fine, but Puerto Rico is bankrupt, they don't have cash on hand to make basic payments and adding them just means tax payers who've never been to Puerto Rico have to pay to fix it.

Let me posit this question, give me a non-political benefit to the US admitting Puerto Rico as a state?

No one is asking for a bailout in this thread. Stop conflating different topics together. You want a non-political reason to justify solving a political problem? You don't need any. But, just in case, here are some non-economic reasons:

1) American citizens fighting wars, yet receiving no representation
2) American citizens paying for SS and Medicare, yet not benefiting as any other citizen in a state (no access to SSI for instance)
3) American citizens having no voice in the federal government even though they must abide fully by it
4) American citizens wanting to be a part of the union despite all this and still being stonewalled
5) American citizens living without full access to the benefits of the federal government

It is, in essence, a humanitarian crisis the US has had the privilege to ignore because of its standing in the world. However, this can't go on.

[Rjjr77]

Someone everyone here should watch on Puerto Rico and its current fiscal issues:

https://www.facebook.com/perolike/videos/1171383482949041/

Note: I don't condone the idea that PR's status should be decided on the fiscally detrimental effects of its rigged market relations with the mainland. Puerto Rico should be given statehood because it is big enough, population-wise, and because its citizens are natural-born Americans who, overall, want statehood. There should not be a lesser class of American citizens depending on what U.S. soil they're standing on. It's as simple as that.

The jones act is a real issue for inflated prices, but it's a drop in the bucket for their problems. This is a beautiful place with no federal income tax, it should do far better. Their problems are not the jones act, their problems are horrific mismanagement and rampant corruption.

The Jones act is a horrifically large part of the problem. Yes, there is administrative mismanagement and corruption, but that is all over many states as well.

Not paying Federal taxes is actually hindering the island's economy because Puerto Rico is not considered a part of the general budget, as the states are, which means it can't fully benefit from federal funds. (Think of states that receive more than they pay, e.g. Alabama).

Imagine having to pay $7 for a gallon of milk (not kidding here) or much more for gas, etc. because of it. It just dampers the entire flow of the economy from the bottom up.

There is also the fact that a great number of mega chains, like Walmart and Walgreen's, have put all the local small businesses out of business, which leaves few other options from where residents can get their products. What does this mean? It means that almost all of the profit made by these companies does not circulate in the local economy, but is rather exported as if it were foreign capital back to the mainland. This also slows down the economy because it's like poking a hole in a bag of sand that's almost out of sand to begin with.

Part of the 7$ for milk isn't the jones act, it's the 11% sales tax.

Islands are more expensive, hawaii deals with the jones act and isn't Defaulting on its debt

They are so inept they can't collect almost half of their taxes, while overpaying public employees and continuing to issue bonds

11% sales tax for $7 is just a little over 7 cents; come on now.

Yes, islands are more expensive, but Hawai'i is a state so you can't possibly make a fair comparison.

They have no other option but to issue bonds since they can't do anything to restructure or renegotiate the debt. They can't even default. They could fire every single employee, and it wouldn't change a thing other than destroying whatever is left of the economy.

11% sales tax on 7 dollars is 77 cents.
Yes milk is expensive, it's only 60 cents cheaper in the Virgin Islands, who doesn't have a jones act requirement...

And they have tons of options on their debt... Nothing is stopping Puerto Rico from restructuring their debt. Nothing. In fact the federal government had to force a committee to do it for them (they did not need federal permission to restructure their debt)
Nothing is stopping Puerto Rico from renegotiating their debt (they did it with most loans in 2014, but of course they did it by issuing more bonds)

You also say they cannot default, Odd they've defaulted twice on debt (2014, 2016).

The problem is Puerto Rico's solution to their fiscal woes has been to borrow more money and now they have no cash to pay the bills.

Yes on the taxes, fixed the number above.

Your argument for denying statehood to PR is nil to begin with anyways. American citizens on American soil that is not D.C. want statehood. They should get it. If we're going to start precluding statehood to fiscal prosperity, then we should start jettisoning fiscally-challenged states from the union. Do we start with Kansas?

I think we as a country cannot afford to take on PR as a state in their current situation, they have to fix their economy first. We'd be adding a state that would be in the worst financial state of any state in US history.

And boy, false equivalence hard core on your second point.

Kansas (and others looking at you Illinois) are already states kicking a state out is far different than allowing a state in.

False equivalence my ass. We're American citizens and denying statehood is practically the same as kicking out a state from the union and making it a commonwealth territory again with no representation. One of the richest empires in the history of mankind can certainly "afford" to correct such a vile political state in which its citizens live. The economy argument is stupid, quite frankly. The above mentioned reasons are enough, period.

Not even close to the same thing. Not even close.

I hate to break it to you but we are not one of the richest empires in the history of mankind, and aren't even in as good fiscal shape as we were 25 years ago.

How can we correct it? Bail out Puerto Rico for 100 billion dollars? Because we aren't trillions in debt with no end in sight? A federal bailout of Puerto Rico would hurt the federal debt rating, while creating an obscene precedent.

And a part that's missing in this whole argument is adding Puerto Rico as a state makes them subject to federal income tax, something that isn't going to make anything in that economy better.

You can pander all you want about what is just, and that's a nice argument, but it doesn't change the reality of the situation. Puerto Rico needs to get their debt under control, it's no different than what the EU demands of their members. The worst part of it is Puerto Rico is showing no signs of doing it. You and other posters have posted a lot of false statements about the debt problems in Puerto Rico, and then jump back to more qualitative arguments, that's perfectly fine, but Puerto Rico is bankrupt, they don't have cash on hand to make basic payments and adding them just means tax payers who've never been to Puerto Rico have to pay to fix it.

Let me posit this question, give me a non-political benefit to the US admitting Puerto Rico as a state?

No one is asking for a bailout in this thread. Stop conflating different topics together. You want a non-political reason to justify solving a political problem? You don't need any. But, just in case, here are some non-economic reasons:

1) American citizens fighting wars, yet receiving no representation
2) American citizens paying for SS and Medicare, yet not benefiting as any other citizen in a state (no access to SSI for instance)
3) American citizens having no voice in the federal government even though they must abide fully by it
4) American citizens wanting to be a part of the union despite all this and still being stonewalled
5) American citizens living without full aced to the benefits of the federal government

It is, in essence, a humanitarian crisis the US has had the privilege to ignore because of its standing in the world. However, this can't go on.

These are reasons that Puerto Ricans have for statehood, not benefits to the US as a whole.

There's an argument for a humanitarian side of things, but again, Puerto Rico gets a ton of benefits from their current situation as well

As for a bailout, that's the only thing the federal government can do to help Puerto Rico fix their debt problem. You may not agree with economic factors, but they exist and are serious impediments to Puerto Rican statehood, as they should be. If Puerto Rico got its act together it could be one of the richer parts of the United States, there is a lot of attractive things about it from an economic development standpoint, but there are so many negatives. Rampant corruption and incompetence at the top of the list.

[Blackacre]

Giving PR Statehood would give it all the economic benefits of statehood, including having all US laws apply there. It's in the situation it's in because of certain loopholes in existing laws that mean that they don't apply to Puerto Rico.

[Rjjr77]

Giving PR Statehood would give it all the economic benefits of statehood, including having all US laws apply there. It's in the situation it's in because of certain loopholes in existing laws that mean that they don't apply to Puerto Rico.

The only benefit would be allowing them to give bankruptcy protection to their utilities, which would help them, but won't help the revenue fund.

They'd lose their edge with bonds, they'd lose their no federal income tax edge too.

[Dr. Arch]

Giving PR Statehood would give it all the economic benefits of statehood, including having all US laws apply there. It's in the situation it's in because of certain loopholes in existing laws that mean that they don't apply to Puerto Rico.

The only benefit would be allowing them to give bankruptcy protection to their utilities, which would help them, but won't help the revenue fund.

They'd lose their edge with bonds, they'd lose their no federal income tax edge too.

It's not an edge. I already explained that earlier.

[Rjjr77]

Giving PR Statehood would give it all the economic benefits of statehood, including having all US laws apply there. It's in the situation it's in because of certain loopholes in existing laws that mean that they don't apply to Puerto Rico.

The only benefit would be allowing them to give bankruptcy protection to their utilities, which would help them, but won't help the revenue fund.

They'd lose their edge with bonds, they'd lose their no federal income tax edge too.

It's not an edge. I already explained that earlier.

Your explaination wasn't correct. Zero federal income tax is absolutely an edge from an economic standpoint

[Dr. Arch]

Giving PR Statehood would give it all the economic benefits of statehood, including having all US laws apply there. It's in the situation it's in because of certain loopholes in existing laws that mean that they don't apply to Puerto Rico.

The only benefit would be allowing them to give bankruptcy protection to their utilities, which would help them, but won't help the revenue fund.

They'd lose their edge with bonds, they'd lose their no federal income tax edge too.

It's not an edge. I already explained that earlier.

Your explaination wasn't correct. Zero federal income tax is absolutely an edge from an economic standpoint

It is absolutely not an edge when you would receive more than what you pay due to the current fiscal situation, both the individual taxpayer through credits/refunds and the presumed state of PR in infrastructure and assistance directly through the Federal budget and all other qualified Federal programs from which it currently does not and cannot benefit.

[Rjjr77]

Giving PR Statehood would give it all the economic benefits of statehood, including having all US laws apply there. It's in the situation it's in because of certain loopholes in existing laws that mean that they don't apply to Puerto Rico.

The only benefit would be allowing them to give bankruptcy protection to their utilities, which would help them, but won't help the revenue fund.

They'd lose their edge with bonds, they'd lose their no federal income tax edge too.

It's not an edge. I already explained that earlier.

Your explaination wasn't correct. Zero federal income tax is absolutely an edge from an economic standpoint

It is absolutely not an edge when you would receive more than what you pay due to the current fiscal situation, both the individual taxpayer through credits/refunds and the presumed state of PR in infrastructure and assistance directly through the Federal budget and all other qualified Federal programs from which it currently does not and cannot benefit.

Puerto Rico receives 20 billion in federal aid and is about the same size population wise as Iowa, who receives 25 billion in federal spending. And has far more money that is able to float throughout their economy than Iowa due to paying no federal income tax.

Also if Puerto Rico became a state they'd get a lot less direct aid.

[Dr. MB]

I'd support Puerto Rico-VI, DC, and combined Pacific state. If the Republicans want the State of Jefferson, Florida Panhandle, or upstate New York, that would be fine too.

[Dr. Arch]

I'd support Puerto Rico-VI, DC, and combined Pacific state. If the Republicans want the State of Jefferson, Florida Panhandle, or upstate New York, that would be fine too.

I absolutely hate it when the train of thought goes like "there has to be some sort of "political tradeoff" for the basic recognition and fair treatment of other American citizens."

[Figueira]

I'd support Puerto Rico-VI, DC, and combined Pacific state. If the Republicans want the State of Jefferson, Florida Panhandle, or upstate New York, that would be fine too.

Upstate New York would be a swing state.

Anyway, regarding the "we don't want to make the Senate even more imbalanced" argument against DC statehood, I think it's only fair that if we're going to give several unpopulated arbitrary swaths of the West (and Vermont) two Senate seats each, we might as well give it to an urban area in the East as well. I would obviously prefer abolishing the Senate entirely, but that unfortunately isn't happening.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

You could hypothetically create a small, but just viable state by unifying NMI with Guam (as was initially intended - they were only partitioned because of colonial hijinks) which would have a fair amount of potential for the GOP. (Although roping in American Samoa would be a bad idea - they aren't even in the same island group). Either that or try and petition Alberta to join the union.

Obviously I think statehood would be great for PR. If you're a developing country and a developed country is offering you representation in the parliament with all the goodies that come with being in a rich country, well screw sentimental nationalism. See: the fate of Comoros.

[Blackacre]

^ if we're doing that, maybe give American Samoa at least citizenship and a voting Congressman?

[Virginiá]

I absolutely hate it when the train of thought goes like "there has to be some sort of "political tradeoff" for the basic recognition and fair treatment of other American citizens."

I couldn't agree with this more. I think that as a last-ditch option, such a compromise could be reached simply to give these disenfranchised people a voice after so long without one, but only after all other options have been exhausted. Republicans are not entitled to one new state for each Democratic-leaning state created, and the idea that either party is entitled to such a thing is absurd. It's not like in the case of DC/PR/etc we want to split up existing states for partisan purposes. These are people who have a legitimate desire and claim for such representation in the union.

It's long been my opinion that as soon as Democrats have the power to do so, they should give statehood (or at least full representation) to at least DC and Puerto Rico. At least from a strategic perspective, I've never understood why Democrats didn't go for this in 2009, but meh. In the end, if Republicans want to kick scream and cry, let them. Just make sure America knows what they are whining about - how "unfair" it is to Republicans that Americans be given fair representation.

[MAINEiac4434]

Puerto Rico should become a state. So should DC. So should USVI and Guam. AS and Northern Marianas should be one state due to their small population. I think Guam, AS and NMI could all lean Republican due to their military histories. NMI's only ever had two Democratic governor - every other governor has been Republican. There are only Republicans and independents in the territorial legislature. AS's delegate is a Republican. Guam hasn't had a Democratic governor in 14 years.

DC and the USVI will be Democratic strongholds. PR will be lean-D. The others...it's not so clear cut.

[RI]

DC should not be a state. Give its population to Maryland or something, but cities should not be entire states.

[Green Line]

Guam, NMI, and maybe Wake Island can become states.  The others - not ready.

[heatcharger]

DC should not be a state. Give its population to Maryland or something, but cities should not be entire states.

You know, there are good arguments to be made about why D.C. should not be a state, but this incredibly arbitrary reason is not one of them. Why does the population density of a certain area disqualify it from being a state?