Libertarian Party Inside Baseball Politics Thread

[StateBoiler]

A thread for Libertarians to discuss the party and its figures moving forward.

What's your outlook coming out of the 2020 election for the party? Sarwark stepped down as Party Chair after 6 years in charge, new Chair is Joe Bishop-Henchman, a D.C. attorney.

In Indiana, using the recent successful governor run where in a third of the counties the Libertarian finished ahead of the Democratic nominee, they're looking at organizing more county chapters, looking to double the number. Former LNCC Executive Director Evan McMahon is going to run for state party chair at our convention in 2021.

[PSOL]

Thank You Stateboiler for having the testes to post and contribute to this thread on the most partisan s•••hole on this site. You are a trove of knowledge even in the harshest of conditions.

Anyway, what’s the House lineup for 2022?

[John Dule]

With ranked-choice voting established in Maine, the Libertarian Party should be funneling its resources into that state to establish credible candidates. It doesn't matter if they make it to congress (though they might; NH and ME have strong libertarian tendencies)-- they just need to show that they are worthy players in state elections. From there, we can push for ranked-choice voting in other small states. NH, NV, NE, WY, MT, and ND should be priorities.

[Badger]

Genuine question I've been trying to find out. Is there a single libertarian office holder in the country who has won a contested partisan race? That is they were listed on the ballot as libertarian and beat another candidate?

The libertarian party has a list of Nationwide office holders, including whether the office is partisan or not. But just dabbling around with some things such as a few elected Ohio mayor's it appears all the ones I found were running unopposed.

If so, I'd be interested in knowing if this was some sort of sour grapes run like where a republican incumbent narrowly lost a primary and then ran and won in the general as a Libertarian.

[StateBoiler]

Genuine question I've been trying to find out. Is there a single libertarian office holder in the country who has won a contested partisan race? That is they were listed on the ballot as libertarian and beat another candidate?

The libertarian party has a list of Nationwide office holders, including whether the office is partisan or not. But just dabbling around with some things such as a few elected Ohio mayor's it appears all the ones I found were running unopposed.

If so, I'd be interested in knowing if this was some sort of sour grapes run like where a republican incumbent narrowly lost a primary and then ran and won in the general as a Libertarian.

Marshall Burt was just elected as a state legislator in Wyoming, defeating a Democrat in a 2-person race. Bethany Baldes also ran in Wyoming after narrowly losing in 2018 and this year lost by 32 votes in a 2-person race to a Republican.

The party over the years has had a handful of state legislators that won elections. After that, you're down to the elected officials in small towns.

[StateBoiler]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-party_members_of_state_legislatures_of_the_United_States

People elected as Libertarians, so intentionally not counting mid-term switches:

Alaska

Dick Randolph 1978-82, a Republican that switched parties, but he was elected as a Libertarian for the years shown, first in the country, Libertarian nominee for Governor in 1982
Ken Fanning 1980-82
Andre Marrou 1984-86, Libertarian Vice Presidential nominee in 1988, Presidential nominee in 1992, in part aided by the success of Ross Perot's candidacy, but considered by some the worst presidential nominee in the party's history

New Hampshire

Andy Borsa 1992-???
Don Gorman 1992-2000, ran for Libertarian presidential nomination in 2000, lost to Harry Browne
Jim McClarin 1994-96
Finlay Rothhaus 1991-95
Steve Vaillancourt 2000-02, a Democrat that switched parties, but he was elected as a Libertarian for the years shown
Calvin Warburton 1992-95

(New Hampshire has a lot of elected R, became L switches.)

Vermont

Neil Randall 1998-2002

Wyoming

Marshall Burt elected a month ago, current

[#CriminalizeSobriety]

Honestly, I think Spike Cohen deserves consideration for the 2024 nomination. His connection to Muddied Waters Media could be helpful and his social media game is on point.

[Alcibiades]

With ranked-choice voting established in Maine, the Libertarian Party should be funneling its resources into that state to establish credible candidates. It doesn't matter if they make it to congress (though they might; NH and ME have strong libertarian tendencies)-- they just need to show that they are worthy players in state elections. From there, we can push for ranked-choice voting in other small states. NH, NV, NE, WY, MT, and ND should be priorities.

Although ME is not particularly libertarian compared to NH, they absolutely love third party candidates/independents, more than any other state, which, combined with RCV, makes it one of the Libertarian Party’s best bets.

[StateBoiler]

Looking at how Jo Jorgensen did compared to past elections now that results are pretty much final.

Retention of 2016 vote (raw vote total):

Best 5 states:

Utah 97.07% (the McMillan candidacy's effect lowering Johnson's 2016 vote can be seen here, and Idaho below was McMillan's 2nd-best state)
Idaho 57.90%
Louisiana 56.99%
South Carolina 56.74% (Jo Jorgensen and Spike Cohen are South Carolina natives)
Alabama 56.62%

Worst 5 states:

New Mexico 16.88% (Gary Johnson is a New Mexico native)
Oklahoma 29.62%
Minnesota 30.96%
Illinois 31.75%
Wisconsin 32.71%

Comparing percentage of vote to 2012 numbers:

Best 5 states:

Michigan 681.25% (write-in status only in 2012)
Utah 207.32% (Jorgensen's 3rd-best state percentage-wise)
Alabama 183.05%
Virginia 179.01%
Wisconsin 174.63%

(no votes in Oklahoma in 2012 due to no ballot access, so this year is an infinity improvement)

Worst 5 states:

New Mexico 38.31% (again, Johnson-former New Mexico governor)
Arkansas 71.05%
District of Columbia 83.10% (where Jorgensen performed worst percentage-wise)
Vermont 83.76%
Montana 86.64% (Jorgensen's 4th best state percentage-wise)

[PSOL]

Mises Caucus calls Libertarian Party “controlled opposition” for their stances against the free movement and association of the people coup

Looks like the AnCaps might finally split from the Libertarian Party. Might I say that the Libertarian party would be better off without quasi-Nazis following the dogma of Hoppe and Mises.

[libertpaulian]

Mises Caucus calls Libertarian Party “controlled opposition” for their stances against the free movement and association of the people coup

Looks like the AnCaps might finally split from the Libertarian Party. Might I say that the Libertarian party would be better off without quasi-Nazis following the dogma of Hoppe and Mises.

Mises wouldn't want to be associated with these clowns.  Rothbard would, though.

[PSOL]

Mises Caucus calls Libertarian Party “controlled opposition” for their stances against the free movement and association of the people coup

Looks like the AnCaps might finally split from the Libertarian Party. Might I say that the Libertarian party would be better off without quasi-Nazis following the dogma of Hoppe and Mises.

Mises wouldn't want to be associated with these clowns.  Rothbard would, though.

Has the Mises Caucus always been like this?

[StateBoiler]

Mises Caucus calls Libertarian Party “controlled opposition” for their stances against the free movement and association of the people coup

Looks like the AnCaps might finally split from the Libertarian Party. Might I say that the Libertarian party would be better off without quasi-Nazis following the dogma of Hoppe and Mises.

Mises wouldn't want to be associated with these clowns.  Rothbard would, though.

Has the Mises Caucus always been like this?

They formed in 2017 per lpedia.org. https://lpedia.org/wiki/Mises_Caucus They're "anti-Libertarian Party Establishment". (Chris Spangle ridicules that phrase heavily but it's the best way I can put it.) One of their numbers Josh Smith ran against Nicholas Sarwark for national party chair in 2018 and lost. He lost again in 2020 to Joe Bishop-Henchman, but after losing national party chair both times was elected an At-Large member of the Libertarian National Committee. They were very anti-Bill Weld when he was the VP nominee in 2016 and when it looked like Weld would run for the LP presidential nomination in 2020. They're very pro-Ron Paul.

I don't see a split happening though. What would they split into? A few people tried that post-2006 National Convention and it went nowhere.

[StateBoiler]

Honestly, I think Spike Cohen deserves consideration for the 2024 nomination. His connection to Muddied Waters Media could be helpful and his social media game is on point.

I'm not in the anarchist wing at all, but he had a great response to the Capitol Raid at IPR.

https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2021/01/spike-cohen-the-reason-for-the-protests-and-riots/

[PSOL]

Is Spike Cohen apart of the LPRadicals

[Rules for me, but not for thee]

Mises Caucus calls Libertarian Party “controlled opposition” for their stances against the free movement and association of the people coup

Looks like the AnCaps might finally split from the Libertarian Party. Might I say that the Libertarian party would be better off without quasi-Nazis following the dogma of Hoppe and Mises.

Mises wouldn't want to be associated with these clowns.  Rothbard would, though.

Don't you mean Hans-Hermann Hoppe?

[Badger]

Genuine question I've been trying to find out. Is there a single libertarian office holder in the country who has won a contested partisan race? That is they were listed on the ballot as libertarian and beat another candidate?

The libertarian party has a list of Nationwide office holders, including whether the office is partisan or not. But just dabbling around with some things such as a few elected Ohio mayor's it appears all the ones I found were running unopposed.

If so, I'd be interested in knowing if this was some sort of sour grapes run like where a republican incumbent narrowly lost a primary and then ran and won in the general as a Libertarian.

Marshall Burt was just elected as a state legislator in Wyoming, defeating a Democrat in a 2-person race. Bethany Baldes also ran in Wyoming after narrowly losing in 2018 and this year lost by 32 votes in a 2-person race to a Republican.

The party over the years has had a handful of state legislators that won elections. After that, you're down to the elected officials in small towns.

If anyone knows, was Burt the de-facto Republican candidate? I wonder why the Republicans wouldn't have run a candidate of their own in a state is favorable to them as Wyoming.

For that matter, Bethany baldes ran against a long time Republican incumbent two years ago, a guy who previously served as House Majority Leader, and came within like 50 votes of beating him then. Would really love to know more about the inside scoop here. I tried looking stuff up 2 years ago but couldn't find anything that revealed why there was such a strong libertarian / Republican divide in that District.

[politics_king]

Well focusing on Libertarian areas of the country is smart. I would think Alaska, Arizona, Nevada, Wyoming & Maine could all be states with a Libertarian streak. But if you get a good chair in there with candidates that can articulate the Libertarian theory successfully, why not push ahead? I'm still surprised Justin Amash didn't try to run again, but he should probably look at 2024 as the Presidential Nominee or as possible Mayor of the town/city he lives in? Politico's at least know who he is.

[#CriminalizeSobriety]

Is Spike Cohen apart of the LPRadicals

Spike Cohen was originally Vermin Supreme's running mate.

[StateBoiler]

Is Spike Cohen apart of the LPRadicals

LPedia says yes.

[PSOL]

Well this thread might as well get put to good use

1) Can the Dallas Accords, and its end, be explained

2) explain what factions were and are part of the Modern party

3) exactly what major debates go inside the party

[StateBoiler]

Well this thread might as well get put to good use

1) Can the Dallas Accords, and its end, be explained

http://lpedia.org/wiki/Dallas_Accord

The Dallas Accord consists of both formal and informal agreements made at the 1974 Libertarian National Convention, and also refers more broadly to the idea of the Libertarian Party remaining neutral with regard to whether the ultimate goal of the party is a world of limited governments or none at all. The Wikipedia page on this topic is woefully incomplete and misleading.

The accord was a compromise between members of the party's larger minarchist and smaller anarchist factions who were desirous to reach some kind of accommodation in order to avoid a split in the new party. Steps taken to implement the accord involved amending the Platform and the Statement of Principles to refrain from explicitly stating whether it was desirable for the State to exist.

At the 2006 National Convention in Portland, an event called "the Portland Massacre" took place. There was a wholesale bloodletting of the platform where numerous planks were just removed that some say negated the Dallas Accord.

https://lpedia.org/wiki/Portland_Massacre

This effort was the result of efforts by the Libertarian Reform Caucus, founded by Carl Milstead, but not all of those voting to delete planks were on board with the LRC's message, as an alternative motive was to clean house on a platform that some considered to be stale and unwieldy [1].

The 2004 National Platform had 61 planks; the 2006 National Platform had only 15. This was not an unmitigated success for the LRC, however, as a great many of the remaining planks were ones that the LRC firmly wanted removed.

https://reason.com/2006/07/07/the-portland-plank-massacre-of/

The LP members in convention assembled have always had the power, via paper vote, to choose to retain or delete any platform plank, outside the normal floor debate. Prior to this convention, that power had never been used once. This time it was used to get rid of almost everything. (Some of the planks still present are the result of fresh floor debates this year that combined elements of previously existing planks into new ones.)

Most party-watchers agree that the Great Portland Plank Massacre of 2006 was the result of a concerted effort by the Libertarian Reform Caucus (LRC), led by former anarcho-Rothbardian turned "holistic politician" Carl Milsted. While its caucus meetings only drew about 50 of the delegates, that was more than enough, with concerted floor work, for the LRC to achieve much of its ostensible goal.

The LRC saw a lot in the old platform as a barrier to their hopes for the LP. Says the group's website: "The platform and message of the Libertarian Party is extreme, sacrificing practicality and political appeal in favor of philosophical consistency with a single axiom. As such, the party currently appeals only to a tiny fraction of the voting public." The LRC couches its plan not in terms of watering down the party, but of opening it up to anyone in the libertarian quadrant of the famous Nolan Chart.

Recommend reading the full Reason article if you're interested. It's a good discussion of "what should this party stand for?" that for example Democrats and Republicans really never have because they don't want anything to occur at their conventions.

As far as caucuses, I need someone with more practical hands-on history than me to comment. But the ones that get mentioned a lot seem to be the Pragmatists, the Mises Caucus, and the Radicals. There's a bunch of smaller caucuses - some serious, some not - but for example there's a Libertarian Socialist caucus and a Povertarian caucus.

[StateBoiler]

I feel now's a great time for the Libertarians to grab some new members upset with how things are going in their current party. Not sure how many you get though...

[PSOL]

What are the differences between the LPRadicals and the Mises Caucus? Also, what in the world is the povertarian caucus?

[StateBoiler]

What are the differences between the LPRadicals and the Mises Caucus? Also, what in the world is the povertarian caucus?

The Povertarian Caucus focuses on matters affecting people with lower incomes, both in terms of policy and in terms of internal party matters.

I imagine they would be huge proponents of licensing reform.