Who is the most underrated President in history?

[dead0man]

LBJ.

He accomplished a lot. A whole lot. His term was the culmination of the great liberal movement, when it actually stood for things worth standing for, like civil rights, before it became indelibly associated with pot-smoking Communist college students, an association it has still not fully lost. On the home front, he did more than any President since Lincoln (other than FDR).

What does he get remembered for? Vietnam.

Yeah, that little thing.  The thing that makes Iraq look like Grenada.

[dead0man]

Hey, this is a serious thread.

[dead0man]

LBJ and Teddy, underrated?  Wasn't LBJ one of the top Presidents last time we did something like that?  I won't argue here that he sucked (he did), but he certainly isn't "underrated".  It's almost as bad as saying Lincoln or FDR.

[dead0man]

On the thread at hand?  You could make good arguments for a number of Presidents, as has been done in this thread.  But trying to make a case that Teddy (who I like) or LBJ (who I can't stand) are "underrated" as President's is a bit of a stretch.

Unless "underrated" doesn't mean what I think it means.

[dead0man]

wtf ?

Vietnam!  LBJ is hated because he had millions killed in Vietnam.  Hamilton is saying it is France's fault.  JFK only had thousands killed.  Nixon ended the war.  LBJ takes most of the blame for Vietnam, many Americans blame the French for getting us into it.

(and I don't agree with that.  We didnt HAVE to stand up when you all sat down.  That was OUR choice, you guys didn't force it upon us.  I can't blame the French for Vietnam, I can only blame the leadership in the US at the time.  I blame who should be blamed.  JFK, LBJ and everybody in Congress at the time and the American voters who voted for all these asshats.  And then these same people tied the hands of the military and didn't let them do the job.  It makes what Bush the Lesser did in Iraq look good in comparison.)

[dead0man]

France is the reason American ever intervened in Vietnam, Antonio.

Yes, but that doesn't mean you can blame France. It was America's decision.

Correct.  It is the fault of LBJ, JFK, Ike, congress and the voters....in that order.

[dead0man]

Like Iraq!

[dead0man]

Like Iraq!

Yes.

...and just as Bush (and friends) is primarily to blame for Iraq, the various Presidents that lead us to Vietnam (which was MUCH worse for the country than Iraq was) are primarily to blame for Vietnam.

Would LBJ have been in Vietnam if not for France? Doubt it. Had France not had terrible imperialist policies, maybe LBJ would get the respect Antonio feels he deserves.

No.  You can blame France for being a dick and then running away, but you can't blame France for what Americans did for a decade after the French left.