Israel Ambassador: If UN recognize Palestaine, expect the US to completely stop funding the UN

[Red Velvet]

Imagine actually feeling sorry for the UN

The UN is not great, but leaving it over Israel would hurt our worldwide reputation far more than simply telling the Israelis to stfu and be better people.

This isn't leaving the UN, its just defunding the UN.  When the bill was created it also wasn't seen as very realistic to defund the UN so this basically just forces future presidents to keep a consistent foreign policy on this issue until a true solution can be created.

Defunding the UN based on one country's demands a has made my point about Israel's interference in American politics.

I wasn’t aware officials from other countries could tell what officials from countries that aren’t theirs will do, but it goes to show how much USA is worldwide recognized as Israel’s lapdog that even Israeli ambassador will confidently say something of this kind and not sound like delusion. He’s probably correct.

I don’t support Israel, but I do support US getting out of UN for Israel btw. The less US presence in the global institutions, the better and that is the isolationist path they’re clearly choosing for themselves not just with Trump, but with Biden as well.

Counterpoint : The US far right has sought to damage the UN for sometime now. There was always a skepticism of the UN coming from the right wing of the Republican Party. Israel's only taking advantage of the populist isolationist sentiment.

Remember the John BIrch Society ? National Review ?

Everyone knows the US right (aka republicans) is isolationist on many grounds these days, the news that people are uncomfortable to talk about is that Democrats increasingly are as well.

The Israeli ambassador is talking about USA in general, which means independent from whoever is president. He clearly believes USA would do that in regards the UN be it Trump or Biden the president. And he may not be wrong about it.

For me it’s great that both Trump and Biden would sacrifice US influence in big international institutions just to suck Israel’s balls, it opens space for OTHERS to occupy the space vacuum left and Brazil could maybe be one of these places. It just sounds stupid the length if what people are willing to do to appease to Israel. They clearly love it more than they love themselves hahahaha. Let’s watch how far this goes.

[Torie]

This appears to be a manifestation of Israeli hubris on steroids.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

If the USA refuses to recognise Palestine and not adhere to international law, they should indeed just leave the UN. We're better off without them.

No more nations with veto power please (and preferrably no-one).

If the goal is simply to obstruct and abuse the system than just leave.

[jojoju1998]

Imagine actually feeling sorry for the UN

The UN is not great, but leaving it over Israel would hurt our worldwide reputation far more than simply telling the Israelis to stfu and be better people.

This isn't leaving the UN, its just defunding the UN.  When the bill was created it also wasn't seen as very realistic to defund the UN so this basically just forces future presidents to keep a consistent foreign policy on this issue until a true solution can be created.

Defunding the UN based on one country's demands a has made my point about Israel's interference in American politics.

I wasn’t aware officials from other countries could tell what officials from countries that aren’t theirs will do, but it goes to show how much USA is worldwide recognized as Israel’s lapdog that even Israeli ambassador will confidently say something of this kind and not sound like delusion. He’s probably correct.

I don’t support Israel, but I do support US getting out of UN for Israel btw. The less US presence in the global institutions, the better and that is the isolationist path they’re clearly choosing for themselves not just with Trump, but with Biden as well.

Counterpoint : The US far right has sought to damage the UN for sometime now. There was always a skepticism of the UN coming from the right wing of the Republican Party. Israel's only taking advantage of the populist isolationist sentiment.

Remember the John BIrch Society ? National Review ?

Everyone knows the US right (aka republicans) is isolationist on many grounds these days, the news that people are uncomfortable to talk about is that Democrats increasingly are as well.

The Israeli ambassador is talking about USA in general, which means independent from whoever is president. He clearly believes USA would do that in regards the UN be it Trump or Biden the president. And he may not be wrong about it.

For me it’s great that both Trump and Biden would sacrifice US influence in big international institutions just to suck Israel’s balls, it opens space for OTHERS to occupy the space vacuum left and Brazil could maybe be one of these places. It just sounds stupid the length if what people are willing to do to appease to Israel. They clearly love it more than they love themselves hahahaha. Let’s watch how far this goes.

You're naive to think that Brazil could be one of those countries. Russia and China will take up the vacuum and they're no progressive freedom loving countries. But I guess, because they're Anti West, I guess that's okay with you huh ?



American Imperialism bad ! Chinese Imperialism, good !


Either way, this will never happen in reality. The US is not going to lose it's only leverage it has on the world stage; just to appease one singular country, and it's not naive to think so. Trump never withdrew from the UN, or tried to when he was President. This is just an opinion of a singular Israeli politician who's playing to the base in his home country, to win votes ( or whatever votes his party, Likud can win.)

[jojoju1998]

If the USA refuses to recognise Palestine and not adhere to international law, they should indeed just leave the UN. We're better off without them.

No more nations with veto power please (and preferrably no-one).

If the goal is simply to obstruct and abuse the system than just leave.

Recognizing Palestine now, without any structure for a comprehensive peace deal in place, to create a two state solution, will just embolden the Israelis even more, because they would see Palestine, as an actual state, and if people think it's bad now, it will be even worse, when Israel invades all of Palestine as a official all out war, a declaration of war.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

If the USA refuses to recognise Palestine and not adhere to international law, they should indeed just leave the UN. We're better off without them.

No more nations with veto power please (and preferrably no-one).

If the goal is simply to obstruct and abuse the system than just leave.

Recognizing Palestine now, without any structure for a comprehensive peace deal in place, to create a two state solution, will just embolden the Israelis even more, because they would see Palestine, as an actual state, and if people think it's bad now, it will be even worse, when Israel invades all of Palestine as a official all out war, a declaration of war.

Than it's the duty of the international community (the UN) in this case, to condemn Israel, punish Israel, put the people for responsible for this punitive actions in front of the Hague and restore the borders like at least that of 1967.

If not diplomatically enforced, than militarily so, via an international coalition to restore peace. But if nations actually are willing to do this, than i don't believe it'll actually have to happen since Israel would know they shouldn't do this. A big reason of why all this sh**t is ongoing is because no-one is showing intention of stopping them.

That's why the USA (and the Biden administration by extension) has the power to stop this, even if Europe should do more, including pressuring USA to undertake action or take diplomatic actions in case the USA rejects to do something about it, such as diplomatically isolating Israel, ending diplomatic relations, expelling Israeli diplomats, expelling Israel organizations from European organizations, withdrawing recognition for the state of Israel, a ban on Israeli settlers entering European territory and end all trade.

[jojoju1998]

If the USA refuses to recognise Palestine and not adhere to international law, they should indeed just leave the UN. We're better off without them.

No more nations with veto power please (and preferrably no-one).

If the goal is simply to obstruct and abuse the system than just leave.

Recognizing Palestine now, without any structure for a comprehensive peace deal in place, to create a two state solution, will just embolden the Israelis even more, because they would see Palestine, as an actual state, and if people think it's bad now, it will be even worse, when Israel invades all of Palestine as a official all out war, a declaration of war.

Than it's the duty of the international community (the UN) in this case, to condemn Israel, punish Israel, put the people for responsible for this punitive actions in front of the Hague and restore the borders like at least that of 1967.

But as we all know, the UN is weak and useless, because it can be hijacked by bad actors such as China and Russia ( who by the way are no examples of freedom and democracy ). And most importantly, it has 0 to no effect on individual countries.  Look, at the recent resolution by the UN security council. It passed, but it had no operational effect at all.  Or even look back at Rwanda. UN peacekeepers were sent in, and it was useless, no one did anything.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

If the USA refuses to recognise Palestine and not adhere to international law, they should indeed just leave the UN. We're better off without them.

No more nations with veto power please (and preferrably no-one).

If the goal is simply to obstruct and abuse the system than just leave.

Recognizing Palestine now, without any structure for a comprehensive peace deal in place, to create a two state solution, will just embolden the Israelis even more, because they would see Palestine, as an actual state, and if people think it's bad now, it will be even worse, when Israel invades all of Palestine as a official all out war, a declaration of war.

Than it's the duty of the international community (the UN) in this case, to condemn Israel, punish Israel, put the people for responsible for this punitive actions in front of the Hague and restore the borders like at least that of 1967.

But as we all know, the UN is weak and useless, because it can be hijacked by bad actors such as China and Russia ( who by the way are no examples of freedom and democracy ). And most importantly, it has 0 to no effect on individual countries.  Look, at the recent resolution by the UN security council. It passed, but it had no operational effect at all.  Or even look back at Rwanda. UN peacekeepers were sent in, and it was useless, no one did anything.

The irony is that the UN can also be hijacked by another bad actor: the United States of America, and we've seen that happen a number of times too. Not just under Trump (by for instance by withdrawing from Paris or the Iran deal), but also under Biden too.

I've already said that no nation should have veto power. But that perhaps a two third majority should be needed to reach a consensus.

I agree that the UN isn't always as effective by the way, but it's more than nothing at all, and it definitely has its use.

[Pres Mike]

President Biden is more likely to have the US recognize Palestine and not veto UN membership than defund the UN lol

hahaha do you really strongly believe in that? It’s possible but I wouldn’t be this confident.

Its not likely but possible. Or maybe it was just a tactic to get the Israelis to the negotiation  table
https://www.axios.com/2024/01/31/palestine-statehood-biden-israel-gaza-war

[jojoju1998]

If the USA refuses to recognise Palestine and not adhere to international law, they should indeed just leave the UN. We're better off without them.

No more nations with veto power please (and preferrably no-one).

If the goal is simply to obstruct and abuse the system than just leave.

Recognizing Palestine now, without any structure for a comprehensive peace deal in place, to create a two state solution, will just embolden the Israelis even more, because they would see Palestine, as an actual state, and if people think it's bad now, it will be even worse, when Israel invades all of Palestine as a official all out war, a declaration of war.

Than it's the duty of the international community (the UN) in this case, to condemn Israel, punish Israel, put the people for responsible for this punitive actions in front of the Hague and restore the borders like at least that of 1967.

But as we all know, the UN is weak and useless, because it can be hijacked by bad actors such as China and Russia ( who by the way are no examples of freedom and democracy ). And most importantly, it has 0 to no effect on individual countries.  Look, at the recent resolution by the UN security council. It passed, but it had no operational effect at all.  Or even look back at Rwanda. UN peacekeepers were sent in, and it was useless, no one did anything.

The irony is that the UN can also be hijacked by another bad actor: the United States of America, and we've seen that happen a number of times too. Not just under Trump (by for instance by withdrawing from Paris or the Iran deal), but also under Biden too.

I've already said that no nation should have veto power. But that perhaps a two third majority should be needed to reach a consensus.

You're not wrong, but it just calls into question the effectiveness of the UN as a whole, and what we can do to reform it, but no foreign policy official I know of has thought about that long term. Once again, I point back to the Rwandan Genocide, and no one did ANYTHING to stop it. And that was a clear explicit genocide.

[Red Velvet]

Imagine actually feeling sorry for the UN

The UN is not great, but leaving it over Israel would hurt our worldwide reputation far more than simply telling the Israelis to stfu and be better people.

This isn't leaving the UN, its just defunding the UN.  When the bill was created it also wasn't seen as very realistic to defund the UN so this basically just forces future presidents to keep a consistent foreign policy on this issue until a true solution can be created.

Defunding the UN based on one country's demands a has made my point about Israel's interference in American politics.

I wasn’t aware officials from other countries could tell what officials from countries that aren’t theirs will do, but it goes to show how much USA is worldwide recognized as Israel’s lapdog that even Israeli ambassador will confidently say something of this kind and not sound like delusion. He’s probably correct.

I don’t support Israel, but I do support US getting out of UN for Israel btw. The less US presence in the global institutions, the better and that is the isolationist path they’re clearly choosing for themselves not just with Trump, but with Biden as well.

Counterpoint : The US far right has sought to damage the UN for sometime now. There was always a skepticism of the UN coming from the right wing of the Republican Party. Israel's only taking advantage of the populist isolationist sentiment.

Remember the John BIrch Society ? National Review ?

Everyone knows the US right (aka republicans) is isolationist on many grounds these days, the news that people are uncomfortable to talk about is that Democrats increasingly are as well.

The Israeli ambassador is talking about USA in general, which means independent from whoever is president. He clearly believes USA would do that in regards the UN be it Trump or Biden the president. And he may not be wrong about it.

For me it’s great that both Trump and Biden would sacrifice US influence in big international institutions just to suck Israel’s balls, it opens space for OTHERS to occupy the space vacuum left and Brazil could maybe be one of these places. It just sounds stupid the length if what people are willing to do to appease to Israel. They clearly love it more than they love themselves hahahaha. Let’s watch how far this goes.

You're naive to think that Brazil could be one of those countries. Russia and China will take up the vacuum and they're no progressive freedom loving countries. But I guess, because they're Anti West, I guess that's okay with you huh ?

American Imperialism bad ! Chinese Imperialism, good !

Either way, this will never happen in reality. The US is not going to lose it's only leverage it has on the world stage; just to appease one singular country, and it's not naive to think so. Trump never withdrew from the UN, or tried to when he was President. This is just an opinion of a singular Israeli politician who's playing to the base in his home country, to win votes ( or whatever votes his party, Likud can win.)

Nonsense victimization there. Brazil is one of 4 major countries that aspires to get a permanent seat in UN security council, alongside Germany; India and Japan.

The main obstacles between Brazil and a permanent seat are USA and China. And China’s problem is actually with Japan, not Brazil, reason why they tend to be against expansion in general so that Japan doesn’t sneak in.

Every other country would be in favor of Brazil’s ascending to a permanent seat, from France to Russia. So if USA leaves UN and gives up their international power and influence for the sake of Israel, it’s one less complicator factor working against Brazil.

As for your last paragraph, we’ll have to wait and see. Like you said before, domestic political sectors inside USA are increasingly isolationist and historically suspicious of the UN, especially in the Trumpist right.

However, the democrats are also trying to find a balance between supporting Israel and maintaining their international leverage through these institutions even if these two positions enter in major clash as the worldwide internationalist position is one of solidarity with Palestinian people.

Eventually they will not be able to maintain a 100% balance and will have to somewhat compromise on their unconditional support for Israel OR on their internationalist pedigree and influence. The current democratic position is to actively use their international relevance in FAVOR of Israel but that eventually will not be possible to maintain due to existing a clear Pro-Palestinian consensus as the global internationalist positioning.

And honestly, it’s not 100% clear what they would choose at all. Sure, the US establishment would love to maintain their international relevance and cares about it BUT the country is also very clearly on a nationalist and isolationist trend and not just with Trump. Unclear what the Democratic Party while still financially supported by big money from Israeli lobby, would really choose if forced to pick under international pressure.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

If the USA refuses to recognise Palestine and not adhere to international law, they should indeed just leave the UN. We're better off without them.

No more nations with veto power please (and preferrably no-one).

If the goal is simply to obstruct and abuse the system than just leave.

Recognizing Palestine now, without any structure for a comprehensive peace deal in place, to create a two state solution, will just embolden the Israelis even more, because they would see Palestine, as an actual state, and if people think it's bad now, it will be even worse, when Israel invades all of Palestine as a official all out war, a declaration of war.

What's more, the very next Hamas rocket will be a good-old-fashioned casus belli that would give Israel the legal right to invade the state of Palestine the same as any other country declared war upon.

Anyway, this seems like a direct provocation by the UN against US law. Biden should take diplomatic action, but he won't.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

If the international community (read: UN) isn't involved, then there will never be a two-state solution. Israel and Palestine can never be trusted to coexist (as in, recognize each other's right to exist) peacefully without third-party involvement, and that's the God's honest truth.

And if you support a two-state solution but don't like the UN, I'm curious how you think we can get there without it.

[jojoju1998]

If the international community (read: UN) isn't involved, then there will never be a two-state solution. Israel and Palestine can never be trusted to coexist (as in, recognize each other's right to exist) peacefully without third-party involvement, and that's the God's honest truth.

And if you support a two-state solution but don't like the UN, I'm curious how you think we can get there without it.

We need reforms to the UN, but that's beyond the scope of the article. I don't think the UN is bad per se, but it's structures leave it unable to actually do anything.


Look at the Rwandan Genocide. The UN was useless, it was unable to actually do something.

[Red Velvet]

If the international community (read: UN) isn't involved, then there will never be a two-state solution. Israel and Palestine can never be trusted to coexist (as in, recognize each other's right to exist) peacefully without third-party involvement, and that's the God's honest truth.

And if you support a two-state solution but don't like the UN, I'm curious how you think we can get there without it.

Precisely. Which is exactly why it’s unclear what Democrats would choose when they sound exactly like the Trumpist Republicans and Nationalists who are skeptical of international institutions. And that kind of thing isn’t even because they’re ideologically isolationists, they’re simply unwilling to concede on Israel, turning against international institutions instead.

I genuinely don’t know what Red Avis here and the Democratic Party as a whole would pick between “Support for Israel” and “USA international presence”. I don’t think anyone does.

[MasterJedi]

It probably is something Trump would try if he got back into power. Cautioning that eventually Israel would have to pay up in whatever denigrating way he would want.

[David Hume]

If the USA refuses to recognise Palestine and not adhere to international law, they should indeed just leave the UN. We're better off without them.

No more nations with veto power please (and preferrably no-one).

If the goal is simply to obstruct and abuse the system than just leave.

Recognizing Palestine now, without any structure for a comprehensive peace deal in place, to create a two state solution, will just embolden the Israelis even more, because they would see Palestine, as an actual state, and if people think it's bad now, it will be even worse, when Israel invades all of Palestine as a official all out war, a declaration of war.

You mean Israel invades Westbank? For what? If so, they would be another Russia and would face endless terrorism unless they do what the Nazi did, which is clearly intolerable.

[Landslide Lyndon]

You mean Israel invades Westbank? For what? If so, they would be another Russia and would face endless terrorism unless they do what the Nazi did, which is clearly intolerable.

Apparently it's not intolerable for our blue avatars.
For some them it's even desirable.

[Not Me, Us]

You mean Israel invades Westbank? For what? If so, they would be another Russia and would face endless terrorism unless they do what the Nazi did, which is clearly intolerable.

Apparently it's not intolerable for our blue avatars.
For some them it's even desirable.

Many red ones as well.

[Obama24]

It probably is something Trump would try if he got back into power. Cautioning that eventually Israel would have to pay up in whatever denigrating way he would want.

He actually strikes me as very pro-Israel given that he recognized Jerusalem as the capital, which was controversial when he did it and moved the embassy there. Your post seems to imply he is antisemitic and would exact some kind of humiliating capitulation of sorts on them; what evidence is there for that with him, specifically with regard to Israel?

[MasterJedi]

It probably is something Trump would try if he got back into power. Cautioning that eventually Israel would have to pay up in whatever denigrating way he would want.

He actually strikes me as very pro-Israel given that he recognized Jerusalem as the capital, which was controversial when he did it and moved the embassy there. Your post seems to imply he is antisemitic and would exact some kind of humiliating capitulation of sorts on them; what evidence is there for that with him, specifically with regard to Israel?

Nothing like that. Trump is all about Trump and he’ll consider helping anyone as quid pro quo for a personal Trump favor at some point in the future. The only thing he’s a true believer in is fraud.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

If the USA refuses to recognise Palestine and not adhere to international law, they should indeed just leave the UN. We're better off without them.

No more nations with veto power please (and preferrably no-one).

If the goal is simply to obstruct and abuse the system than just leave.

Recognizing Palestine now, without any structure for a comprehensive peace deal in place, to create a two state solution, will just embolden the Israelis even more, because they would see Palestine, as an actual state, and if people think it's bad now, it will be even worse, when Israel invades all of Palestine as a official all out war, a declaration of war.

Than it's the duty of the international community (the UN) in this case, to condemn Israel, punish Israel, put the people for responsible for this punitive actions in front of the Hague and restore the borders like at least that of 1967.

But as we all know, the UN is weak and useless, because it can be hijacked by bad actors such as China and Russia ( who by the way are no examples of freedom and democracy ). And most importantly, it has 0 to no effect on individual countries.  Look, at the recent resolution by the UN security council. It passed, but it had no operational effect at all.  Or even look back at Rwanda. UN peacekeepers were sent in, and it was useless, no one did anything.

The irony is that the UN can also be hijacked by another bad actor: the United States of America, and we've seen that happen a number of times too. Not just under Trump (by for instance by withdrawing from Paris or the Iran deal), but also under Biden too.

I've already said that no nation should have veto power. But that perhaps a two third majority should be needed to reach a consensus.

You're not wrong, but it just calls into question the effectiveness of the UN as a whole, and what we can do to reform it, but no foreign policy official I know of has thought about that long term. Once again, I point back to the Rwandan Genocide, and no one did ANYTHING to stop it. And that was a clear explicit genocide.

I don't know why not more was done to stop the Rwandan genocide, but generally this was a slow response, and it's possible not enough people or nations actually cared about it or were fully aware of what is going on until it was already too late. It was a genocide that happened in a very short timespan IIRC.

But it's also in part the job of the UN to learn from its past mistakes and ensure it doesn't make the same mistakes anymore.

There also isn't really an alternative for the UN here, that would be better equiped with this.

A huge reason of why the UN is not very capable to do a lot of stuff is because of great powers having veto power, including the USA, but also Russia and China of course. It makes it very incapable to independently (strongly) act if it's against the interest of one of those three, which often will be the case for something.

I am getting a lot of LoN vibes kinda generally nowadays from the UN. And i'm not sure it being incapable to deal with that stuff is solely to blame on the UN itself (it's an easy way of trying to disregard what they are doing). And that would further increase national governments power to act indepêndently or not take UN seriously.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Imagine actually feeling sorry for the UN

Yup. I used the like the UN and still think it's a good concept, but the last 20-25 years showed that it's not functioning the way it should. The Security Council at least should be reformed and veto powers be stripped.

What incentive would the US have to remain in the UN if the nonsense that other nations propose could not be stopped in the Security Council?

Americans view the UN as tax dollars down the drain, and a World Government Entity telling us what to do.  This is not a particularly sound viewpoint, but it would (rightfully) gain more traction if the US did not have its veto in the Security Council.

The US does not need the UN.  Nations that are truly civilized need the US in the UN.  If people find themselves cheering for what the results would be if the US lost its veto power in the UN Security Council, they need to really examine what there definitions of "Human Rights" are.  Our veto in the Security Council has helped keep the UN from being a form of the Tyrrany of the Majiority that the World would have to endure, although it would be sweet music to some of the worst actors in the World.

[All Along The Watchtower]

What’s with all the Capital Letters for so many Words and Terms that don’t Need to be Capitalized?

[David Hume]

If this is based in such an American law then said American law needs to be changed or repealed outright.

The U.S. in 1990 passed Public Law 101-246, which focused on authorizing appropriations for fiscal 1990 and 1991 for the Department of State. Section 414 of the bill highlighted concerns over the inclusion of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) in the United Nations and specialized agencies.

The section states, "No funds authorized to be appropriated from this act or any other Act shall be available for the United Nations or any specialized agency thereof which accords the Palestine Liberation Organization the same standing as member states."


It seems this law can be bypassed by any new appropriation bills by single majorities in both Houses.