One year in the Democratic Party

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

So, BushOK, what precisely is the source of your intolerance?  I'm just curious.

If I'm so intolerant, then why am I friends with a gay man?

I don't know why, Oklie, but most wife beaters 'love' their victims.

I hope you're not calling me a wife-beater and I don't think you are for the record.  I don't even have a wife, plus as many of my closest friends and even those who don't know me too well, I'm pretty harmless.  I rarely lay a hand on anybody, except embracing in a hug or a handshake, but never do I hit or punch anybody.

I told you I am friends with a gay man.  As I have repeated several times, I do not like the gay lifestyle, based purely on the Bible.  However, I do not believe the best way to get people out of that lifestyle is by violence.  In fact, that does more harm than good and plunges them deeper into that lifestyle.  The best way to get people out of it, from what I believe, is by loving them and befriending them and making them feel like a human being instead of useless piece of fag trash like some fundamentalists treat them as.  My support of civil unions is based on that, I don't want them to feel any less of a human being.  I want them to feel like they are important to society in hopes that I may show them or someone else may show them what the Godly joys of a heterosexual relationship can be (morally, of course).  My non support of gay marriage is based on the fact that marriage is an institution created by God between one man and one woman.  It is a sacred institution and necessary to preserve life upon the face of the earth.  It is my goal to promote the sanctity of the family, rather than try to change what a family consists of.  I want to make this clear -- I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THE GAY PERSON, JUST THE GAY LIFESTYLE.

I do mean this with respect - since I do feel you're sincere and without malice.

You may be friends with A gay man, but clearly you've never really spoken with him. If you're treating your relationship as some kind of outreach program - then it's going to fail. It makes it sound like you believe that identifiying as gay is some kind of attention seeking tactic. I've seen the documentaries - if someone actually "goes straight" most of them end up miserable closest cases who are more afraid of "hell" than being themselves. They're not straight - they're gay, living a straight lifestyle.

[tik 🪀✨]

'Gay lifestyle' is an obnoxious misnomer. Gay individuals are as diverse as straight people. The 'lifestyle' problems (if you wish to think of them as such) are no different from those found in straight relationships. Forgive me, but the constant generalizations and labeling of all things 'gay' made by society is becoming unbearably retarded. And frankly it isn't their place to be making those judgments.

[Joe Biden 2020]

So, BushOK, what precisely is the source of your intolerance?  I'm just curious.

If I'm so intolerant, then why am I friends with a gay man?

I don't know why, Oklie, but most wife beaters 'love' their victims.

I hope you're not calling me a wife-beater and I don't think you are for the record.  I don't even have a wife, plus as many of my closest friends and even those who don't know me too well, I'm pretty harmless.  I rarely lay a hand on anybody, except embracing in a hug or a handshake, but never do I hit or punch anybody.

I told you I am friends with a gay man.  As I have repeated several times, I do not like the gay lifestyle, based purely on the Bible.  However, I do not believe the best way to get people out of that lifestyle is by violence.  In fact, that does more harm than good and plunges them deeper into that lifestyle.  The best way to get people out of it, from what I believe, is by loving them and befriending them and making them feel like a human being instead of useless piece of fag trash like some fundamentalists treat them as.  My support of civil unions is based on that, I don't want them to feel any less of a human being.  I want them to feel like they are important to society in hopes that I may show them or someone else may show them what the Godly joys of a heterosexual relationship can be (morally, of course).  My non support of gay marriage is based on the fact that marriage is an institution created by God between one man and one woman.  It is a sacred institution and necessary to preserve life upon the face of the earth.  It is my goal to promote the sanctity of the family, rather than try to change what a family consists of.  I want to make this clear -- I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THE GAY PERSON, JUST THE GAY LIFESTYLE.

I do mean this with respect - since I do feel you're sincere and without malice.

You may be friends with A gay man, but clearly you've never really spoken with him. If you're treating your relationship as some kind of outreach program - then it's going to fail. It makes it sound like you believe that identifiying as gay is some kind of attention seeking tactic. I've seen the documentaries - if someone actually "goes straight" most of them end up miserable closest cases who are more afraid of "hell" than being themselves. They're not straight - they're gay, living a straight lifestyle.

Thank you for noticing my sincerity.  I have spoken with this gay man and speak with him at least 3 or 4 times a week and have spoken with him on the phone once.  I have never met him in person, but have spoken with him on YIM for the past year and a half.  He believes a lot of the same stuff I believe, ironically -- is for civil unions, is against gay marriage, and thinks Bush is a great president.  The only thing different between us besides the fact he's gay and I'm straight is that he is supporting a Republican -- Mitt Romney -- for President while I'm supporting Democrat John Edwards.  I am not solely trying to use this as an outreach, but that is my ultimate goal, but I want to do it in the most loving way possible.  I don't talk about my faith as openly as I probably should with him, as I rarely talk about it, but I do bring it up some.  I don't beat him over the head with it or shove it down his throat, but I do sprinkle it in every now and then.  We mainly talk about politics and stuff about our lives.

[HardRCafé]

If I'm so intolerant, then why am I friends with a gay man?

Wow, one?

You seriously need to brag about that more often.  And drink more lattes.

[afleitch]

I am not solely trying to use this as an outreach, but that is my ultimate goal, but I want to do it in the most loving way possible.

That is not 'loving'; if the only reason you are friends with that person because you want to try and change them for your own ends then its a fraudulent friendship and you should be ashamed of yourself.

[Joe Biden 2020]

I am not solely trying to use this as an outreach, but that is my ultimate goal, but I want to do it in the most loving way possible.

That is not 'loving'; if the only reason you are friends with that person because you want to try and change them for your own ends then its a fraudulent friendship and you should be ashamed of yourself.

That is not the only reason.  I am friends with him for him, mainly, but since I don't like the gay lifestyle, I feel it is my obligation to him and to my God that I love him in a manner that will make him want to come out of it.

Contrary to popular opinion -- IT IS OKAY and PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE TO NOT LIKE THE HOMOSEXUAL LIFESTYLE

[Eraserhead]

I am not solely trying to use this as an outreach, but that is my ultimate goal, but I want to do it in the most loving way possible.

That is not 'loving'; if the only reason you are friends with that person because you want to try and change them for your own ends then its a fraudulent friendship and you should be ashamed of yourself.

That is not the only reason.  I am friends with him for him, mainly, but since I don't like the gay lifestyle, I feel it is my obligation to him and to my God that I love him in a manner that will make him want to come out of it.

Contrary to popular opinion -- IT IS OKAY and PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE TO NOT LIKE THE HOMOSEXUAL LIFESTYLE

Sure but it isn't (or at least it shouldn't be) acceptable to force your moral and religious beliefs on him and other people. A lot of people (me included) consider God about as real as Santa Claus.

Live and let live man.

[Joe Biden 2020]

I am not solely trying to use this as an outreach, but that is my ultimate goal, but I want to do it in the most loving way possible.

That is not 'loving'; if the only reason you are friends with that person because you want to try and change them for your own ends then its a fraudulent friendship and you should be ashamed of yourself.

That is not the only reason.  I am friends with him for him, mainly, but since I don't like the gay lifestyle, I feel it is my obligation to him and to my God that I love him in a manner that will make him want to come out of it.

Contrary to popular opinion -- IT IS OKAY and PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE TO NOT LIKE THE HOMOSEXUAL LIFESTYLE

Sure but it isn't (or at least it shouldn't be) acceptable to force your moral and religious beliefs on him and other people. A lot of people (me included) consider God about as real as Santa Claus.

Live and let live man.

Who ever said TALKING to the guy about it lovingly is shoving it down his throat.  Am I supposed to keep my mouth shut on what I believe to be the truth and not share the joy that Christ Jesus gives me with others?  You non-believers seem to think if I say one word about God I'm shoving it down your throat, or at least thats how I perceive it.

[Verily]

I am not solely trying to use this as an outreach, but that is my ultimate goal, but I want to do it in the most loving way possible.

That is not 'loving'; if the only reason you are friends with that person because you want to try and change them for your own ends then its a fraudulent friendship and you should be ashamed of yourself.

That is not the only reason.  I am friends with him for him, mainly, but since I don't like the gay lifestyle, I feel it is my obligation to him and to my God that I love him in a manner that will make him want to come out of it.

Contrary to popular opinion -- IT IS OKAY and PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE TO NOT LIKE THE HOMOSEXUAL LIFESTYLE

Sure but it isn't (or at least it shouldn't be) acceptable to force your moral and religious beliefs on him and other people. A lot of people (me included) consider God about as real as Santa Claus.

Live and let live man.

Who ever said TALKING to the guy about it lovingly is shoving it down his throat.  Am I supposed to keep my mouth shut on what I believe to be the truth and not share the joy that Christ Jesus gives me with others?  You non-believers seem to think if I say one word about God I'm shoving it down your throat, or at least thats how I perceive it.

Because it's never "just saying one word". Or else our definitions of "one" are so far apart as to be irreconcilable.

[Eraserhead]

I am not solely trying to use this as an outreach, but that is my ultimate goal, but I want to do it in the most loving way possible.

That is not 'loving'; if the only reason you are friends with that person because you want to try and change them for your own ends then its a fraudulent friendship and you should be ashamed of yourself.

That is not the only reason.  I am friends with him for him, mainly, but since I don't like the gay lifestyle, I feel it is my obligation to him and to my God that I love him in a manner that will make him want to come out of it.

Contrary to popular opinion -- IT IS OKAY and PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE TO NOT LIKE THE HOMOSEXUAL LIFESTYLE

Sure but it isn't (or at least it shouldn't be) acceptable to force your moral and religious beliefs on him and other people. A lot of people (me included) consider God about as real as Santa Claus.

Live and let live man.

Who ever said TALKING to the guy about it lovingly is shoving it down his throat.  Am I supposed to keep my mouth shut on what I believe to be the truth and not share the joy that Christ Jesus gives me with others?  You non-believers seem to think if I say one word about God I'm shoving it down your throat, or at least thats how I perceive it.

I could basically care less how much you talk about Jesus but you said you were trying to stop your friend from being a homosexual. Why? Just let him be. He isn't hurting anyone.

Don't turn him into the next Larry Craig. It is unnatural for a gay man to have to live like that.

[Small Business Owner of Any Repute]

I am not solely trying to use this as an outreach, but that is my ultimate goal, but I want to do it in the most loving way possible.

That is not 'loving'; if the only reason you are friends with that person because you want to try and change them for your own ends then its a fraudulent friendship and you should be ashamed of yourself.

That is not the only reason.  I am friends with him for him, mainly, but since I don't like the gay lifestyle, I feel it is my obligation to him and to my God that I love him in a manner that will make him want to come out of it.

Contrary to popular opinion -- IT IS OKAY and PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE TO NOT LIKE THE HOMOSEXUAL LIFESTYLE

Sure but it isn't (or at least it shouldn't be) acceptable to force your moral and religious beliefs on him and other people. A lot of people (me included) consider God about as real as Santa Claus.

Live and let live man.

Who ever said TALKING to the guy about it lovingly is shoving it down his throat.  Am I supposed to keep my mouth shut on what I believe to be the truth and not share the joy that Christ Jesus gives me with others?  You non-believers seem to think if I say one word about God I'm shoving it down your throat, or at least thats how I perceive it.

Perhaps because the number of cases of "teh gay" being legitimately "prayed away" don't even scratch the single digits?

[Gabu]

Who ever said TALKING to the guy about it lovingly is shoving it down his throat.  Am I supposed to keep my mouth shut on what I believe to be the truth and not share the joy that Christ Jesus gives me with others?  You non-believers seem to think if I say one word about God I'm shoving it down your throat, or at least thats how I perceive it.

Does he actually want to be coaxed into attempting to become straight?

[Frodo]

[Reluctant Republican]

Personally, I find many social conservatives attitudes towards  gays to be hypocritical. You have someone like Vitter who has liaisons with female prostitutes , and you don’t hear many condemnations of his “depraved lifestyle.” But the minute Craig is found in the bathroom soliciting for gay sex, a lot of social conservatives seem to use it as evidence as to how “depraved” the gay lifestyle is, and use it to try to somehow prove that gays are more promiscuous and how like the only goal of the homosexuals is to destroy the traditional family unit.

I understand that many people think that Homosexuality is a sin that needs to be treated or cured or whatever, and while I don’t agree with that view at all, I at least try to bear in mind that they are, in their minds, saving the homosexual from a life of sin. I just wish, however, that they’d put as much emphasis into trying to save someone like Vitter as they do into trying to save someone like Craig.

That being said, you seem to care about your friend, Oklahoma for Edwards, and I think your trying to help him out. But if he's happy with the way he is, maybe you should try to be, as well. His sexuality should  be between him and God[if one indeed exists.]

[Joe Biden 2020]

Personally, I find many social conservatives attitudes towards  gays to be hypocritical. You have someone like Vitter who has liaisons with female prostitutes , and you don’t hear many condemnations of his “depraved lifestyle.” But the minute Craig is found in the bathroom soliciting for gay sex, a lot of social conservatives seem to use it as evidence as to how “depraved” the gay lifestyle is, and use it to try to somehow prove that gays are more promiscuous and how like the only goal of the homosexuals is to destroy the traditional family unit.

I understand that many people think that Homosexuality is a sin that needs to be treated or cured or whatever, and while I don’t agree with that view at all, I at least try to bear in mind that they are, in their minds, saving the homosexual from a life of sin. I just wish, however, that they’d put as much emphasis into trying to save someone like Vitter as they do into trying to save someone like Craig.

That being said, you seem to care about your friend, Oklahoma for Edwards, and I think your trying to help him out. But if he's happy with the way he is, maybe you should try to be, as well. His sexuality should  be between him and God[if one indeed exists.]

When I approach him, I allow him to be in control.  I allow him to decide when he wants to talk about it.  I will gently prod him from time to time, but I generally give him the controls.  If he doesn't want to talk about it, I don't press the issue, because that would be pushing it down his throat.  However, if he asks me, I will gladly talk to him about it and pray with him and for him, that is not pushing it down his throat since he initiated it.

As a Baptist minister, thats what I do with anyone that has any kind of sin.  Yes, I do consider homosexuality to be a sin, but not an unforgivable sin.  It is no worse or no better than telling a little white lie or killing 3,000 people in the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.  Before I judge them and call them sinners, I will always examine my own heart and confess any sin I have before I try to remove the plank from my brother's eye.

There's no need to condemn me for my view, as I don't condemn others for their views.

[Joe Republic]

When I approach him, I allow him to be in control.  I allow him to decide when he wants to talk about it.  I will gently prod him from time to time, but I generally give him the controls.  If he doesn't want to talk about it, I don't press the issue, because that would be pushing it down his throat.  However, if he asks me, I will gladly talk to him about it and pray with him and for him, that is not pushing it down his throat since he initiated it.

Sorry, what are we talking about again?

[Eraserhead]

Personally, I find many social conservatives attitudes towards  gays to be hypocritical. You have someone like Vitter who has liaisons with female prostitutes , and you don’t hear many condemnations of his “depraved lifestyle.” But the minute Craig is found in the bathroom soliciting for gay sex, a lot of social conservatives seem to use it as evidence as to how “depraved” the gay lifestyle is, and use it to try to somehow prove that gays are more promiscuous and how like the only goal of the homosexuals is to destroy the traditional family unit.

I understand that many people think that Homosexuality is a sin that needs to be treated or cured or whatever, and while I don’t agree with that view at all, I at least try to bear in mind that they are, in their minds, saving the homosexual from a life of sin. I just wish, however, that they’d put as much emphasis into trying to save someone like Vitter as they do into trying to save someone like Craig.

That being said, you seem to care about your friend, Oklahoma for Edwards, and I think your trying to help him out. But if he's happy with the way he is, maybe you should try to be, as well. His sexuality should  be between him and God[if one indeed exists.]

When I approach him, I allow him to be in control.  I allow him to decide when he wants to talk about it.  I will gently prod him from time to time, but I generally give him the controls.  If he doesn't want to talk about it, I don't press the issue, because that would be pushing it down his throat.  However, if he asks me, I will gladly talk to him about it and pray with him and for him, that is not pushing it down his throat since he initiated it.

As a Baptist minister, thats what I do with anyone that has any kind of sin.  Yes, I do consider homosexuality to be a sin, but not an unforgivable sin.  It is no worse or no better than telling a little white lie or killing 3,000 people in the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.  Before I judge them and call them sinners, I will always examine my own heart and confess any sin I have before I try to remove the plank from my brother's eye.

There's no need to condemn me for my view, as I don't condemn others for their views.

Uh I tend to think killing 3,000 people is just a little bit worse than being gay.

[Ebowed]

Contrary to popular opinion -- IT IS OKAY and PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE TO NOT LIKE THE HOMOSEXUAL LIFESTYLE

Contrary to popular opinion, it's okay to be gay.

Also, again, what is the "homosexual lifestyle"?  Is a gay man who makes a pledge to God to be celibate, but doesn't have a staight relationship because he's physically and mentally NOT ATTRACTED TO WOMEN, living the "homosexual lifestyle"?

[afleitch]

Contrary to popular opinion -- IT IS OKAY and PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE TO NOT LIKE THE HOMOSEXUAL LIFESTYLE

Contrary to popular opinion, it's okay to be gay.

Also, again, what is the "homosexual lifestyle"?  Is a gay man who makes a pledge to God to be celibate, but doesn't have a staight relationship because he's physically and mentally NOT ATTRACTED TO WOMEN, living the "homosexual lifestyle"?

The homothexthual lifestyle ith like this thilly. Queerth dont train ath doctors or..oh look at that cute top...firefighers or teacherth. The are parodieth and thterortypeth that..nice ath on that guy..therve a political purpoth like black people wearing work clotheth and eating watermelon did before the thivil rigtth movement thilly..Gilmore Girlth on DVD! tho got to buy...coth itth better to thay that they are not like everyone elth ath meeting them in day to day work and thothial thituatationth would thatter the illuthion that ith portrayed by thelf therving politithians and religioth folk. Thath what they mean by a lifthtyle.

[afleitch]

That was not aimed at BushOklahoma, but the more wider reason why people try and say that people have a unified 'lifestyle' that they can then parody and slam for gain, when gay people are as diverse as the next lot.

[Gabu]

That was not aimed at BushOklahoma, but the more wider reason why people try and say that people have a unified 'lifestyle' that they can then parody and slam for gain, when gay people are as diverse as the next lot.

Reminds me of this bit of satire.

[tik 🪀✨]

Thank you, Afleitch.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

Again, I do feel that your heart is in the right place.

However, this is one of the key problems. You clearly are adherent to the idea that homosexualty is something that can be cured, that it is, in essence, an addiction. Since in many cases, addiction comes from unsatisfactory personal conditions, then you believe that treating him with respect, with somehow alter his mindset and allow him to drop the addiction?

I know this view from many fundamentalist christian friends, but the idea holds absolutely no water. Homosexuality occurs in many animal species, and serves many purposes, I understand that your "world view" is one based on the bible - and that's great for you. But IMHO the bible is lacking on any kind of understanding of human biology, homosexuality/bisexuality is, I believe a naturally occuring genetic variant - this is also becoming a well advocated theory in the academic community (the long time enemy of traditional christians (which is sad)). In 95% of cases I believe that a persons sexuality is based on genetics - to deny their sexuality because they are afraid of possible consequences - is tantamount to bleaching your skin if you're african american, since you may appear one way on the surface, but who you truly area doesn't change. I'm also a believer that the repression of healthy sexual desire, can internalise and mutate into something more dangerous.

But since you and most of us here are coming from this thing from different angles - it's not exactly something where common ground will be reached.

[Joe Biden 2020]

I would like to add that this friend of mine, though he's gay, is on the whole MORE conservative than I am.

[Eraserhead]

I would like to add that this friend of mine, though he's gay, is on the whole MORE conservative than I am.

Is your friend Larry Craig?