Italian Elections and Politics 2022 - Our Time to Schlein

[parochial boy]

I see that Salvini is following the Kurz precedent of government by photo-opportunity

[parochial boy]

Schadenfreude, lol

[parochial boy]

"Centro"destra? That's kind of a joke at this point, no?

[parochial boy]

Dunno, think I'd prefer a world where the government was still unpopular and the country wasn't having to endure this tragedy.

[parochial boy]

Why can't you just abolish the Senate? What's argument against unicameralism in Italy?

Why should we abolish the Senate? What's the argument for unicameralism in Italy?

Presumably the usual arguments about gridlock, contradictory or confused mandates, tendancy to be dispropotionately conservative...

But also, in Italy, what purpose does the senate serve? In federal countries, the upper chamber generally represents the federal subjects against a lower chamber that represents the people; or else, it plays a clearly subordinate role like in France or the UK. But in Italy? what is the point of it? what is the use in having it as a separate institution to the chamber of deputies?

[parochial boy]

The relatively weak Yes votes in Veneto and Friuli-Venezia Giulia, was that to be expected? Like the latter in particular doesn't strike me as the kind of place that would stand out in that direction?

[parochial boy]

The relatively weak Yes votes in Veneto and Friuli-Venezia Giulia, was that to be expected? Like the latter in particular doesn't strike me as the kind of place that would stand out in that direction?

It wasn't particularly expected, although it makes sense if you imagine a lot of Lega voters voting No to try to embarrass the government. Then again, the Lombardy vote is on par with the national average, so maybe the explanation is not so easy. And TAA is over 70% Yes for some reason.

Largely due to Südtirol by the looks of it; although the SVP at least appear to have not backed either side so I'm not sure what would be going on there

[parochial boy]

So, what happened in the Aosta Valley? Why did the AV local party get hit so hard?

It turns out the entire Aostan political class has been in the pockets of the Calabrese mafia for decades, it seems the revelation didn't go down well.

[parochial boy]

There's no reason a system with PR can't also have geographical representation. I dare say that most forms of PR use some form of regional constituency, be it the German MMP format or the multi-member constituencies you get in the likes of Spain or Switzerland or Sweden (albeit with top-ups in that case). The advantage of the latter form is that you are considerably more likely to also have a local representative who you actually voted for, and therefore probably more responsive to your concerns. So, you know, a PSOE supporter in Salamanca still has a PSOE deputy representating them. Good luck with that if you're a Democrat in Tulsa.

And I suspect most of those posting in this thread would agree that the US has a uniquely, um, awful system of generally failing to function as a representative democracy

[parochial boy]

There's no reason a system with PR can't also have geographical representation. I dare say that most forms of PR use some form of regional constituency, be it the German MMP format or the multi-member constituencies you get in the likes of Spain or Switzerland or Sweden (albeit with top-ups in that case). The advantage of the latter form is that you are considerably more likely to also have a local representative who you actually voted for, and therefore probably more responsive to your concerns. So, you know, a PSOE supporter in Salamanca still has a PSOE deputy representating them. Good luck with that if you're a Democrat in Tulsa.

I get that, but I still don't think it's ideal.

Basically in electoral politics, you can come of with a model that forces coalition building at the ballot box or coalition building in smoke-filled rooms. By having single member districts with a runoff system, the voters as a bloc choose which of the top two candidates they want to represent them in parliament--basically, what the French do.

The usual outcome of this, of course, is that a single party that receives a minority of first-round votes but an overwhelming majority of second round votes has the mandate to lead a government directly from the people. In my view, a system like this forms a government that most people are at least somewhat happy with which seems more democratic than having party leaders hash some convoluted coalition out after facing the voters.

In a multi-party system, many of those Democrats in Tulsa may not have a local liberal representative, but at least they elect someone they can ultimately get behind. I'd rather that than having one liberal representing the whole state of Oklahoma that probably isn't part of any government on the national level.

Erm, overall I would far prefer a government agenda to be set based on the input of a legislature representing a cross-section of opinions that are broadly refelctive of society as a whole. I would find that eminently more democratic than a party being able to push its entire policy agenda through unopposed on the basis that a plurality of the population deemed it the least worse option. I think the first is an eminently more democratic practice.

I mean, the satisfaction of the French in their political leaders is uniquely low. That is in no small part due to the fact their system was designed essentially to the advantage of one man who quite popular 50 years ago.

[parochial boy]

What are the reasons Italy's govts are so unstable over decades? Seems like this isn't the case elsewhere in Europe. Even in Spain, which is similar in terms of economic and social status. France obviously has a different governing system while Germany and Northern European countries are generally more stable.

A (for the most periods proportional) parliamentary system with lots of parties, almost never a strong bipolarism, all the clienterarism that ran within and around DC (and the Kingdom-era liberals for that matter) etc. etc. etc.
Compare Belgium (almost 50 governments since the end of WW2, and that's considering that they've had caretaker periods far longer than ours).

And France was almost always in the same situation until the 5th Republic. Which does make you wonder if pursuing governmental stability at the cost of all else is really the best thing to do

[parochial boy]

Seriously, when did "libertarians" get so attracted to ethnic chauvinism?

Prepare for a bit of a hot take, but is it really surprising that an ideology devoted to fanatically worshipping the idea of social and economic hierarchy would be pretty excited by the idea of an ethnic hierarchy too?

[parochial boy]

Who is claiming they're going to vote Italia Viva anyway? I mean, Renzi fanboys, but who the christ is a Renzi fanboy in this the year 2021?

[parochial boy]

Journalist and Senator Gianluigi Paragone, who was expelled from M5S a year ago, has decided to go overboard with... I'm not sure how to call his ideology exactly, but he has officially founded a party: Italexit, which is anti-EU, anti-establishment, anti-neoliberal, and 'souverainist'. Actually the party was born months ago, but I have only caught up to it now because lately Paragone is a bit more in the spotlight as one of the few people vocally in opposition to the Draghi government.

Oh my, Michel Onfray says hello

The last thing you guys need is to start importing pretentious French pseudo-inellectual wankery

[parochial boy]

Five days and counting?

Tell me you're Italian politics without telling me you're Italian politics

[parochial boy]

Lazio fans actually less fash than I would have expected.

Shame there aren't any numbers for Livorno.

[parochial boy]

Slightly random question, but is there any reason Aosta still maintains it's big regionalist vote?

I mean for all the "French/Arpitan" stuff the region is still very overwhelmingly Italian speaking in practice and doesn't rseem to really have the big cultural distinctiveness that South Tyrol does