Reform Atlasia Plan

[True Democrat]

As one of the authors of this plan, I would like to thank the President for presenting a new way forward for Atlasia.

[True Democrat]

Well technically I don't think Atlasia would be a Republic anymore.

[True Democrat]

Well technically I don't think Atlasia would be a Republic anymore.

Why ever not?

Yes why not? It's still the Republic of Finland but they have a parliamentary system, Republic of Poland, Republic of Austria, Republic of Hungary, Czech Republic. Of course we would be the Republic of Atlasia unless we change the name.

I believe that the Second Republic would probably be the best name for this new system since it would delineate it from the older electoral system and older government structure.

Nevermind.  I once heard that if Britain were to join the US it would have to change its govenrment because it's not a republic.  I guess I was a mistaken.

[True Democrat]

Give me a day or two and I'll try to turn this plan into a series of amendments.  I am not at all enthusiastic about yet another Constitutional Convention.

Although no constitutional convention would be needed, this would be extremely difficult for new people to understand, since they would have to refer to amendments for the actual frame of government.

[True Democrat]

A few provisions still need to be made that Colin and I were talking about:

Expelling members (I was thinking three fourths) (probably procedural in the Senate)
Impeachment of the President of the Senate (three fourths of the Senate?)
Votes of No Confidence for the Prime Minister (maybe procedural also):
     1/5 (at this time three out of fifteen) members of the National Assembly   
          must petition for it to occur
     Can only be held once every two weeks, unless a majority of the National
          Assembly petitions for a sooner one
     A simple majority is needed to pass a VONC
     If a vote of no confidence passes, the Prime Minister must step down and
          new coalitions must be formed or a new prime minister must be elected
All impeachment occurs in the Senate (with the exception of the PM, which is a VONC)

[True Democrat]

Cut terms in half...

I think two months terms would be much too short.

[True Democrat]

A Vote of No Confidence can only be called once every two weeks unless a majority of the Senate calls for a Vote of No Confidence before the time limit is up.

I assume you mean the National Assembly, not the Senate.

[True Democrat]

Ernest, make you sure in your amendments you mention that Senators are only elected by districts, drawn up by the Supreme Court, and there should be six districts.

[True Democrat]

Ernest, instead of writing a package of amendments, why not just write an entirely new constitution as one amendment.  Or, we could just write a new constitution, go in to the convention, and vote on it right away.

[True Democrat]

Ernest, instead of writing a package of amendments, why not just write an entirely new constitution as one amendment.  Or, we could just write a new constitution, go in to the convention, and vote on it right away.

I have to agree. Having it drawn up piecemeal probably wont work. We could likely be stopped at some half-step. So that we have the President of the Senate, the National Assembly but no Prime Minister or abolishment of the Regions. Or we could have a President, No Regions, and a 6 member Senate. Or we could be left with any number of odd and varying combinations that could leave the Government of Atlasia is an odd tangle between the reformed governmnet and the old government.

I started writing the new constitution.

[True Democrat]

I'm completely done with the new constitution, if anybody wants to see it.

[True Democrat]

Doing this as separate amendments is way too confusing.  I say we debate this, and then agree on it as a nation, call a constitutional convention, and then just pass the constitution quickly.  The first elections for this constitution take place in February.

[True Democrat]

What does the speed have anything to do with it? I do not want the Senate to begin legislation. I am, however, fine with it passing resolutions and the like as long as its not actually originating legislation. I'm guessing that something could be included that states that the Assembly leave open one space in its legislative agenda for bills petitioned for by a member of the Senate, however I believe that this could be addressed through procedural resolution within the National Assembly and nothing more.

You may be fine with the Senate twiddling its thumbs for a couple of weeks at the start of each Assembly, but I'm not.

What does the President do at the beginning of every session?

[True Democrat]

What does the speed have anything to do with it? I do not want the Senate to begin legislation. I am, however, fine with it passing resolutions and the like as long as its not actually originating legislation. I'm guessing that something could be included that states that the Assembly leave open one space in its legislative agenda for bills petitioned for by a member of the Senate, however I believe that this could be addressed through procedural resolution within the National Assembly and nothing more.

You may be fine with the Senate twiddling its thumbs for a couple of weeks at the start of each Assembly, but I'm not.

What does the President do at the beginning of every session?

Tries to get his cabinet appointed, prepares for legislation on the upcoming calendar and suggests amendments that would make them something other than veto fodder when they come up, or uses the executive authority of his office to prepare or change regulations.  That we have mainly had Presidents who have chosen a laid-back approach doesn't mean that there aren't opportunities for Presidents to do things from the very beginning of their term of office.

The constitution I wrote gives the Senate line item veto power on bills, with the vetoed clauses going back to the National Assembly with an up or down simple majority vote.

[True Democrat]

I'm completely done with the new constitution, if anybody wants to see it.

Why not This is such a radical overhaul of the Atlasian government structure that I think the best way forward is a new Constitution, which will incorporate both the plan (and thus, the changes) along with the parts that are retained

I've already stated that I feel its better to do this than to do things piecemeal

Indeed, the more and more I think about it, the more I like the idea of the Second Republic. And this would be its first and, touch-wood, the last Constitution

'Hawk'

I'm posting it on the wiki as we speak.  It's just taking a little time to format.

[True Democrat]

Here it is:

https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/User:True_democrat

[True Democrat]

1. There should be a way other than amending the constitution to change the number of Assemblers.

To change the number of Senators we need an amendment, but I would be open to your idea.  Perhaps three fourths of the both the National Assembly and the Senate can change the number of Assemblers?

2.  It is usual for the Head of State to be the de jure Commander-in-Chief even if de facto control of the military is held otherwise.  The President and not the Prime Minister should be Commander-in-Chief.

I understand that the head of state is usually the official commander in chief, but this is Atlasia, so we need to make things a little simpler.  If the Prime Minister is de facto in control the military, why not just make him actually in control?  We have a good separation of powers, with the Senate declaring war, and the Prime Minister being the Commander in Chief.  However, I wouldn't be opposed to having the President be Commander in Chief and having the National Assembly declare war.

[True Democrat]

3.  As far as I can tell it changes us from a Republic of limited and clearly specified powers, to one with limited and clearly specified restrictions on powers.  The difference is subtle but profound and unless changed back to include something like Article I Section 5 of the existing Constitution, I shall be a vocal and persistent opponent of this proposal.  Points 1 and 2 are stylistic differences, but this point is non-negotiable to me.  I don't insist on the exact text of the current list of limited powers, though I think it be preferable that any changes in the powers of government from what is currently in the constitution be kept to the absolute minimum needed to carry through the change in the form of government, but I do insist that there be one.  Trying to turn this attempt at government reform into a back-handed power grab is the surest way I know of to see that this is defeated if not in the Senate then at the ballot box.

I believed that because there were no regions anymore, I wouldn't need to specify specific powers of the National Assembly, but I am totally open to adding the set of clauses that defines the power of the goverment.  I think adding Section Five with all the Senate rights to the National Assembly part, as long as the necessary and proper clause goes with it.

[True Democrat]

Ernest, I'm not sure I understand your position.

Are you for or against getting rid of regions?  Either we get rid of regions, or we don't, we can't have this inbetween method you want.  There is simply not enough activity for regions.  If activity and participation picks up in the future, I'd be more than happy to amend the constitution to put in regions, but for now we can't.

[True Democrat]

So you want to put a gag rule on certain issues?  That worked in the 1840s. . .

[True Democrat]

So you want to put a gag rule on certain issues?  That worked in the 1840s. . .

What gag rule?   How does the fact that a particular issue need a constitutional amendment instead of legislation act a gag rule?  By that logic, in the real world, opponents of flag burning are gagged because they need a constitutional amendment instead of just a law to get their way, to use a particular concrete example.  Now it is true that whether an amendment is needed would affect the possibility of a particular measure passing, but that is a separate question from whether it would be discussed.

If there are no regional legislatures, why shouldn't the national government have the right to talk about the issue?  Not talking about the issue will only cause chaos.  You either have Federalism or not, you can't have it both ways.

[True Democrat]

So you want to put a gag rule on certain issues?  That worked in the 1840s. . .

What gag rule?   How does the fact that a particular issue need a constitutional amendment instead of legislation act a gag rule?  By that logic, in the real world, opponents of flag burning are gagged because they need a constitutional amendment instead of just a law to get their way, to use a particular concrete example.  Now it is true that whether an amendment is needed would affect the possibility of a particular measure passing, but that is a separate question from whether it would be discussed.

If there are no regional legislatures, why shouldn't the national government have the right to talk about the issue?  Not talking about the issue will only cause chaos.  You either have Federalism or not, you can't have it both ways.

Then I say let's have Federalism. Perhaps in the future an active governor will get elected somewhere.

Clearly Federalism isn't working with this level of participation in Atlasia.  We can't wait for one good Governor for one region to revive Federalism.

[True Democrat]

Just a few recent changes to the True Democrat Constitution, Articles IV and VI have been combined into one Article like in Emsworth's proposal. Also the elections for both the Senate and the National Assembly are set by law instead of the Constitution.

Also if you didn't see this before the Senate is now able to write resolutions that, if passed by a majority of the Senate, are introduced into the National Assembly as if they were normal legislation introduced by a member of that body.

A few other changes have been made too.

The President of the Senate is now Commander in Chief, and the National Assembly declares war with two thirds voting in favor.  Also, until a Prime Minister is elected, the Chief Justice presides over the National Assembly.

[True Democrat]

Can you all get a move on please?

It doesn't matter if what's agreed on is perfect or not, things can always be changed later, but something has to be implemented quickly.

It's being introduced into the Senate momentarily.