Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl, imprisoned by Taliban in Afghanistan since 2009, is freed

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Well I guess this just confirms that negotiating with actual terrorists is easier and more fruitful than negotiating with the Republicans in Congress.

When was the last time that the Republican party hauled off and killed 6 people?

Anyhow, I think that it's hard to say what Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl is, but I strongly suspect that he was a deserter, and it's pretty clear that Obama did not adhere to the notification requirement when transferring the Taliban fighters out of Guantanamo.

I think it's pretty telling that the soldiers in Bergdahl's unit are risking punishment by calling him a traitor.

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I really want to know if some of Bergdahl's critics here (Grumps and Riley) have ever served in the military? Because I have heard a lot of (potential) chickenhawking going on in this thread, and I say that as someone who really likes both posters.

As far as I am concerned, I don't blame Bergdahl for snapping. The man most likely had mental issues before the Taliban nabbed him, and they are much, much worse now, I'm sure. He couldn't handle the pressure and snapped. The army should have done a better job weeding out those who should go to the frontlines and those who should not. And now they have this man, as well as the lives of the 3,000 men who have died fighting this pointless war, on their hands.

If Bergdahl does turn out to be sane, then he should be tried and punished for deserting. But until the facts are known, I'm not going to pass judgment on a man who went to hell and back.

I think it's irrelevant if Grumps and Riley aren't in the military. I understand your concern about chickenhawking, but your implication that only military servicemembers can truly understand military issues seems unfair. However, if we do use that litmus test, Bergdahl should be completely discredited, considering how many people from his own unit have taken the risk to publicly say that he was a deserter. Needless to say, I believe that Bergdahl merits criticism.

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Fox News claims that evidence indicates Bergdahl declared that he was a "mujahid, 'or warrior for Islam'" while in captivity, but that he attempted to escape his captors. The report also indicates that Bergdahl converted to Islam and that he was accepted by his captors at some points.

Any thoughts?

[Never]

Any thoughts?

Lost me at "Fox News claims".

Okay, just write them off then. Maybe I should never trust anything that MSNBC says then...

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Holy sh**t, can Riley get more hyperbolic than he is here?

"LOL GONNA LEAD TO MORE DEATHS, SEZ I!"

This entire thread, between his hyperventilating and Grumps looking to be led, is moronic. Even if Bergdahl deserted - even if he converted to Islam - even if soldiers died looking for him - this is still a good deal.

Primarily because Gitmo needs to be shut down, by any means necessary. I do not care whether this was legal or not; the ends absolutely justified the means.

Now it's a good deal that Bergdahl deserted, just to get a good thread? Your post was confusing.

Also, are you seriously saying we should take illegal means to shut down a military base that President Obama is probably legally justified to unilaterally close, being that it is in a foreign country?

http://thinkprogress.org/world/2014/06/02/3443719/the-case-for-negotiating-for-bergdahls-release/

According to this, the 5 Talibans we traded were going to be released at the end of this year anyway. Assuming this is correct, Republicans no longer have a leg to stand on, even if Bergdahl really is a deserter.

It seems simplistic to say that the 5 Taliban operatives are the only issue here. Bergdahl himself has become a subject of debate.

I just it is ridiculous that people think it is no big deal that a soldier deserted a counterinsurgency outpost.

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I just it is ridiculous that people think it is no big deal that a soldier deserted a counterinsurgency outpost.

When was his court martial?

I find it unnerving that people here are ignoring the word of our soldiers who were there in the same unit as Bergdahl and said that he did in fact desert, as in left, his post.

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And you were appointed to his tribunal?

This is an 'issue' only because of knee-jerk patriotardism. Nothing more.

Your post is the epitome of hackishness.

Maybe Merriam-Webster
can help you understand what a deserter is:

"To abandon (military service) without leave"

intransitive verb

"To quit one's post, allegiance, or service without leave or justification; especially: to abandon military duty without leave and intent to return"

I don't need a tribunal to tell me that Bergdahl did in fact carry out the act of deserting.

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I just it is ridiculous that people think it is no big deal that a soldier deserted a counterinsurgency outpost.

When was his court martial?

I find it unnerving that people here are ignoring the word of our soldiers who were there in the same unit as Bergdahl and said that he did in fact desert, as in left, his post.

How many soldiers have said he deserted? A couple? That's a very small sample of the soldiers who knew him.

Of course everyone else's silence doesn't necessarily mean he didn't desert, but there's no reason to automatically believe these few soldiers over everyone else's words, at least before hard facts are out.

I guess you don't place much value on personal witnesses. It wasn't just one soldier who criticized Bergdahl.

For example, if someone publicly murdered another person, how many witnesses does it take to prove the identity of that murder? 2, 5, 10, 100? Heck, what about five hundred? Do we need every single living person who served alongside Bergdahl in his unit to come out against him? If the accusations that these soldiers are throwing aren't true, wouldn't we expect at least one or two people to come forward and refute them?

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You need a tribunal to convict him of it, genius. And even then, "leaving him as a prisoner of war" isn't in the sentencing options.

You are offended because you want to be.

Whatever, since when did liberals like military tribunals anyway?!

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I don't need a tribunal to tell me that Bergdahl did in fact carry out the act of deserting.

What? Yes you do. Maybe if there were some kind of indisputable proof out there you could conclude he deserted without any kind of trial, but the anecdotes of a very small percentage of the soldiers who met him is not nearly enough to be certain.

Legally, I need that tribunal, but I don't have to quash belief in something because a ruling hasn't happened.

I like the whole Guilty til Proven innocent logic working here.

I know some people have come out, that doesn't mean its the case, and he could have serious mental health issues. Until we have all those facts out there, calling him a deserter is just unfounded.

We might already have facts. What about the Pentagon back in 2010, which reported that Bergdahl walked away from his unit?

Perhaps we already know what has happened, and people just refuse to believe it.

I have a thread in Individual Politics praising Benito Mussolini, you intellectual invertebrate. I am no liberal, in any use of the term.

Okay, so you're a fascist sympathizer, who praised someone aligned with Hitler? I don't see how that is supposed to improve your image, if that was your intent. You being a fascist really explains your stupid posts.

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And yet, oddly, your position (that deserters who "betray the nation" deserve the worst possible of fates) is more classically Hitlerite than my own.

You also support a concentration camp - Gitmo. I do not.

When did I specifically say that Bergdahl deserved the worst horrible fate? I am saying that once he is back in America, he probably deserves some type of punishment. At the very least, he should be demoted from the rank of Sergeant.

Guantanamo Bay is not a concentration camp. It is a prison in which we feed, clothe, and shelter terrorists. That prison is not perfect, but it isn't the next Holocaust.

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Not that it will change anyone's mind here, but Charles Krauthammer at the Washington Post did a write-up about Bergdahl, arguing that:

- Everyone negotiates with terrorists, and that we need to get over it.
- The Obama Administration disobeyed the law by not notifying Congress thirty days in advance of the Taliban-Bergdahl swap, though Congress seems hypocritical in developing a backbone at this point, since it has allowed the President to get away with so many other executive decisions that undermined the power of the legislature.
- Releasing five Taliban detainees for one American captive will endanger the nation, but the fact of the matter is that Americans value human life more than our enemies, so the uneven trade in particular wasn't unusual.
- It appears that Bergdahl was a deserter, but it is unclear whether he was a defector. If he were a defector, meaning that he actually became an active enemy instead of a captive, he would deserve death, but this judgment could be counteracted by recognition of the Stockholm Syndrome.
- Bergdahl should be tried and found guilty of desertion, based on the evidence at hand.
- The Obama Administration's initial celebratory mode after Bergdahl's release was unwarranted, as an action of this magnitude deserved a grimmer attitude.

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I am saying that now that he is back in America

What?  No he isn't.  Are you even following the details of this story?

To be fair, it is 3:00 a.m., but I'm really sorry for making that one mistake, and I am aware that Bergdahl is in Germany recuperating from captivity. I meant to write "Once he is back in America.", but at this point, I don't think anyone who disagrees with me on this thread can really see what I'm saying anyhow, so what does that one mistake in a post matter?

To answer your question, yes, I'm following the details of this story, but I'm not God. I make mistakes.

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@Joe Republic: You know what, it seems strange that you would take a jab at me when we have someone comparing me to Hitler on this thread, but that's just my opinion. I've always thought it demeaning to compare people expressing opinions to particular madmen.  I would expect a moderator to notice those kinds of things, though I am aware that you are not the moderator for this board, so it is not as if you can do much about anything here.

[Never]

Somebody compared you to Hitler?  Welcome to the internet.

Being called a fascist is like somebody in real life saying "you look tired".  It's annoying, but you get over it and move on.

Point taken, but this same poster (Meursault) also seems anti-Semitic based on other posts. Is that acceptable on this forum?

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Who is this Never troll?
Is he a new kind of fruitcake or just the reincarnation of an old acquaintance?

I'm new, and I'm not usually as much of a "troll" as I am being on this thread. I just have strong feelings on this particular topic.

EDIT: But wait, why am I being picked out as the troll on this topic? I see a few other ones here...

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I'm legitimately shocked, and frankly scared, about the stunning cultural disconnect between the people here and the real world of the military. There was a gentleman on Fox who talked about this. Being a deserter is second only to actively betraying your country in terms of severity. As the guy on fox said, being a deserter isn't like being a little too hungover and skipping Gender 101.

if anyone is a traitor, it is the people who are literally supporting the continued imprisonment of an american citizen by the taliban. just saying.

Even assuming the GOPies are correct in their summarizing of Bergdahl, is a treacherous enemy sympathizer with an unpredictable mental state really the sort of person you want to simply forget about? Best case scenario, we traded a few runts to recover a POW. Worst case scenario, we traded the same runts to bring a deserter and potential Adam Gadahn sequel to the justice and due process we guarantee (kinda sorta hahah not really) to everybody. I see no downside either way.

I'm thankful that in this situation the shotcallers acted decisively and without consideration for the selectively namby pamby BS the Fox crowd ferments in their heads.

Well, the one thing with your best-case scenario is that the runts will likely return to terrorism. Nevertheless, even though Bergdahl was not the greatest soldier in my opinion, I still think it was worth it to get him back from the Taliban, at least for the sake of reuniting him with his family.

Anyhow, I will say this to everyone that I interacted with on this thread: I sincerely apologize for my abrasive attitude in my prior posts. I should not have carried myself in the manner that I did, as it was unbecoming for any topic of discussion.

[Never]

I'm legitimately shocked, and frankly scared, about the stunning cultural disconnect between the people here and the real world of the military. There was a gentleman on Fox who talked about this. Being a deserter is second only to actively betraying your country in terms of severity. As the guy on fox said, being a deserter isn't like being a little too hungover and skipping Gender 101.

if anyone is a traitor, it is the people who are literally supporting the continued imprisonment of an american citizen by the taliban. just saying.

Even assuming the GOPies are correct in their summarizing of Bergdahl, is a treacherous enemy sympathizer with an unpredictable mental state really the sort of person you want to simply forget about? Best case scenario, we traded a few runts to recover a POW. Worst case scenario, we traded the same runts to bring a deserter and potential Adam Gadahn sequel to the justice and due process we guarantee (kinda sorta hahah not really) to everybody. I see no downside either way.

I'm thankful that in this situation the shotcallers acted decisively and without consideration for the selectively namby pamby BS the Fox crowd ferments in their heads.

Well, the one thing with your best-case scenario is that the runts will likely return to terrorism. Nevertheless, even though Bergdahl was not the greatest soldier in my opinion, I still think it was worth it to get him back from the Taliban, at least for the sake of reuniting him with his family.

Anyhow, I will say this to everyone that I interacted with on this thread: I sincerely apologize for my abrasive attitude in my prior posts. I should not have carried myself in the manner that I did, as it was unbecoming for any topic of discussion.

These former prisoners aren't terrorists, they're members of the Taliban, which is the deposed former government of Afghanistan/current guerrilla anti-Kabul government rebel group that was aligned with a terrorist organization.

Okay, so I take it that we should refer to the former prisoners as probable supporters of terrorism?

I understand that the Taliban was the former government of Afghanistan, but since their disposal, not only have they aligned with terrorists, but its supporters have apparently committed terrorist acts themselves.

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Meh. FOX could convince 43% of the country that the sky is green if they wanted to.

Can they also convince another 23% to be unsure what color the sky is?

It's interesting that veteran households are angrier than the rest of the public at Bergdahl, not that a majority of either group appears to be angry at him.

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I feel like American patriots would make a useful base for parking lots and skyscraper foundations.

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http://politicalwire.com/archives/2014/06/13/bergdahl_held_in_solitary_for_two_years.html

"American Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl, while held prisoner in Afghanistan, was locked in solitary confinement for two straight years and did not see another human face for that entire time, senior military sources with knowledge of his 'reintegration process' told Fox News."

"Officials said Bergdahl, during that period, only talked to his captors through the wall of a six-foot-by-six-foot metal box, which he was kept in."

His mental health must have been destroyed.

Oh my, that is terrible. I hope that Bergdahl manages to recover from his atrocious treatment at the hands of his captors.

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Yawn.

Prisoners' exchange is such a common practice, so I don't understand the fuss.

Wasn't Bergdahl the only POW from the War in Afghanistan? That probably magnifies this story.