Opinion of compulsory military service

[RFayette]

Poor, but the idea of compulsory national service can have some merit as it can be a means to churn together the social classes and avoid them stratifying.

Agreed, I have a pretty positive opinion of the idea of compulsory national service right after high school, though I tend to think the discipline of the military would be better to impart into young people than other types of organizations (like Peace Corps).   Though I'd be concerned with what the military is doing with the people, I definitely think that boot camp would be a great experience for all of us young people to have to go through.  

[RFayette]

I definitely think that boot camp would be a great experience for all of us young people to have to go through.

Most American 18 year olds couldn't do it.  Some for physical reasons, most for mental reasons.  It would have to be altered, a lot, from the way the military does it.  BMT (Basic Military Training) can't make the coward strong unless he/she want's to be made strong.  Forcing people to do it won't matter because you can't force the will into them.  It would help a few, some would even take to it and enlist, but most would be miserable and get little out of it (other than a hatred for men in wide hats and reveille.....I still hate reveille a bit and that was 21 years ago.)

During Vietnam, I suspect a huge chunk of kids "not ready" for combat had to go through it.  Was it dumbed down then?  Of course, the cohort of 18-year-olds today is far more "wussified" than 40 years ago, so that would be a problem, but it seems like it would be worth a shot.  If it can be done with reasonable success in juvenile detention centers, I think it can be done on a wider scale and would at least be worth a try. 


Personally, I'd be 100% (probably more like 120%) in favor of compulsory national service, with the choice of civilian or military.  But I think requiring military boot camp-style training regardless of the choice would be a fantastic idea, to encourage positive character attributes like self-discipline, obedience, loyalty, hard work, perseverance, and mental toughness.. 

The other reason I find compulsory military (or national) service, whether military, or civilian, alluring is that it could increase social cohesion and improve employment prospects by effectively "guaranteeing" two years of work experience and allow everyone to have a sense of national identity and pride.

[RFayette]

But I think requiring military boot camp-style training regardless of the choice would be a fantastic idea, to encourage positive character attributes like self-discipline, obedience, loyalty, hard work, perseverance, and mental toughness..

These (or at least the way the military usually conceives them) are all awful things.

Expand on that idea please?  The military's structure and emphasis on obedience does a whole lot of good in turning people around, having known a few people with 1.X GPAs in high school do great in college in a useful subject like engineering after a stint in the military.  The work ethic, physical fitness, etc. promoted by the military seem like great skills.

[RFayette]

But I think requiring military boot camp-style training regardless of the choice would be a fantastic idea, to encourage positive character attributes like self-discipline, obedience, loyalty, hard work, perseverance, and mental toughness..

These (or at least the way the military usually conceives them) are all awful things.

Expand on that idea please?  The military's structure and emphasis on obedience does a whole lot of good in turning people around, having known a few people with 1.X GPAs in high school do great in college in a useful subject like engineering after a stint in the military.  The work ethic, physical fitness, etc. promoted by the military seem like great skills.

I don't want our kids to blindly follow some constantly-screaming, self-important, testosterone-filled cretin's orders just because he happens to be their hierarchical superior. I don't want them to endure constant physical and psychological abuse just so that they can learn how to kill and not be killed. I don't want those who happen to be physically weak, wimpy, socially awkward, or simply uninterested in all this stupidity to be mercilessly bullied and humiliated. I don't want them to forge the extremely unhealthy sort of "camaraderie" that this sort of experience leads to.

Some people want to go through this, and it is their right to. Those people will jump at the opportunity to enlist. That's why most countries have a professional military, and it's better for everyone involved.

To be blunt, your description of the military seems like a right-wing caricature of what liberals think about the armed forces. 

Sigh.....the brave men (and women) who put their life on the line and train great soldiers for battle shouldn't be belittled with such language.  Sure, maybe they're not as eloquent with essays or as adept with differential equations, but that kind of language is just demeaning. They aren't cretins.  They're heroes, and they have tons of soft skills, like leadership ability, that many very intelligent people lack.  Yes, the drill seargants could learn something from the nerds, but I would say it applies vice versa just as much, if not more.


As someone who could definitely be described as a socially inept, "wimpy" nerd (far moreso in the past than now), it seems like you assume those character traits are static.  Negative character traits can be improved upon, and I've been lifting weights, working out a lot, and reading The Red Pill to try to actively improve myself (no, I don't agree with all of its philosophy, but it still has useful advice) to try to improve my social skills and physical ability.  And that's why I think military discipline would help the nerds and deviants alike.  I tend to think that the values of loyalty, love of country, and self-discipline are things that are sorely lacking in this country.  And frankly, I'm a little surprised why liberals would be so opposed to such a measure - it's incredibly egalitarian, helps increase communication between different social classes and ethnic groups, and would generally increase societal cohesion.