France General Discussion

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Seems I've missed the most part.

Well, haven't missed a lot of things I think. Damn, that was sober, compared to last time. So it hasn't been that big stuff competing with the Fête de l'humanité that they envisaged to do last year just after the 1st one and just before: "We just heard about the fact that the big bank Lehman Borthers in the US has bankrupted". Other than that, well, the few I heard wasn't really different as usual, she doesn't make politics, she wants to spread feelings, oh yes, that's the way we make politics today.

[Hash]

Compared to last time, yeah, definitely sober. Probably softer drugs.

She's also more isolated though, nobody of Valls-Peillon-Filipetti attended today, unlike at the Zénith last year. Her new shtick also seems to be against the "Parisian etat-majors" which want to make her shut up.

[Hash]

André Reichardt (UMP) was elected President of the Alsace Regional Council

Vote Results
André Reichardt (UMP) 26
Jacques Bigot (PS-Greens) 12
Patrick Binder (FN) 5
Bernard Stoessel (DVC, inc) 4

There seems to have been 2 defections from the FN to the UMP-Centre group since 2004, since Binder was predicted 6 votes by pundits (Stoessel was given 3, meaning that a FN vote probably went to Stoessel). The PS-Green group has 8 Socialists and 4 Greens, and there's been no switches since 2004.

Stoessel says he's still in the majority, but doesn't want to be in the executive. Other centrists also support the majority, like the new NC councillor Laurent Spiero. Others, like the MoDem Odile Ulrich-Mallet are favourable to an alliance with the PS-Greens and Ulrich-Mallet denounced the "takeover" of the region by the "UMP machine" (note to that dumbass: Adrien Zeller was a member of the UMP).

And before anybody pesters me about the name of the defector, these elections have always been done by secret ballot. Those elections were also much more fun, if you want, before 2004. You had chaos, backstabbing, walk-outs, yelling, whining, screaming and people with Adolf Hitler pictures on posters protesting the FN.

André Reichardt is predicted to a caretaker of sorts, and he shouldn't pose a problem to the predicted UMP candidate for 2010: Senator Philippe Richert. André Reichardt is Mayor of Souffelweyersheim, a Strasbourg suburb, and President of the UMP Federation in the Bas-Rhin.

P.S.: Jacques Bigot's name makes me laugh every time. 

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Compared to last time, yeah, definitely sober. Probably softer drugs.

She's also more isolated though, nobody of Valls-Peillon-Filipetti attended today, unlike at the Zénith last year. Her new shtick also seems to be against the "Parisian etat-majors" which want to make her shut up.

Eva Peron Ségolène Royal needs nobody, she just needs the people and there is no problem for her since she is the people.

3 candidates for primaries:

Bertand Delanoë (representing Martine and friends, all the Jospin generation)
Manuel Valls (for the youngs, most of those those who were behind Royal, Assouline, Filipetti, well the kitties gang)
Ségolène Royal (for...the people)

Hmm, I think they would succeed in creating that big primaries from Greens/(maybe Front de Gauche) to maybe MoDem, but at least I think they would do a big thing, that would overcome the PS, once for all. Ségolène Royal has all her chances in that, more than ever. [/all of this still suspend to big contextual events]

But, even in case of big events, that would make people psychologically more febrile, I think it would play for Seeg. Either she finishes sectarian, either she takes the country. And if ever she one day takes this country, we will all feel our pain guys, actually, Sarko could have been a cool time in comparison.

[/all of this also suspended to regional results, and especially Green's ones, though something seems to be sure, none of the recognized name in Greens has a chance to do something in the primaries]

I'd be glad to see a fresh strong interesting person that I don't know appearing now or a bit of time before primaries, today, things can go very fast when you're unknown.

Oh, and, our left is more than ever empty and ridiculous, but our right is more than ever a band of bad clowns (Hortefeux, Besson, Villiers, Estrosi, Mitterand, for the main ones) with a poor clown leading them, luckily he has for him his dose of pragmatism, why all these clowns are in politics, they would be surely better elsewhere, but here, please, let's be serious now...

[Antonio the Sixth]

BTW, forgot to mention this :

Villepin is now officially guilty.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

BTW, forgot to mention this :

Villepin is now officially guilty.

Oh, what happened?

[Antonio the Sixth]

BTW, forgot to mention this :

Villepin is now officially guilty.

Oh, what happened?

Didn't you hear Sarko ? It was some days ago.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

BTW, forgot to mention this :

Villepin is now officially guilty.

Oh, what happened?

Didn't you hear Sarko ? It was some days ago.

Ah this, yes, well, good move of Villepin's lawyers, and Sarkozy should be aware that now he has serious responsibilities before he talks. Yup, that's hard, politics today being less and less considered as something serious...

[Antonio the Sixth]

BTW, forgot to mention this :

Villepin is now officially guilty.

Oh, what happened?

Didn't you hear Sarko ? It was some days ago.

Ah this, yes, well, good move of Villepin's lawyers, and Sarkozy should be aware that now he has serious responsibilities before he talks. Yup, that's hard, politics today being less and less considered as something serious...

And that's grave. If we accept this, things are getting very, very bad...

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Yup Antonio, but personally I consider a bad circle is already being engaged, that politics won't stop leaning toward populism for times to come now.

I think there are things more important than politics to care about today, and which doesn't belong to politics, which is in short "to get back some sens in this world, some sens and some principles", to me this is not the job of the politics, that's the job of an other realm of the society, you know, spirituality and thus religion. Though, maybe you're leaning to be a total leftist, thinking politics is here to give principles to people, what believed the former far-leftist regimes. And I'm not saying that spirituality, thus religion, should make politics, I'm just saying it's its job to care about sens and principles in a human society. Well that's anyways a big debate which doesn't belong at all to this thread. It was just to show why I don't care that much of the current bad trends of politics.

So, well, personally, I give my thoughts to where I think the real changes have to come from and let the politicians making some fools of themselves, congratulating them when I find something interesting, blaming them when i find something blamable.

The French model doesn't help to see things like that, but I think our modernity should push us to. Politics is a technical thing before everything.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Yup Antonio, but personally I consider a bad circle is already being engaged, that politics won't stop leaning toward populism for times to come now.

Don't be so pessimistic. Nothing is unavoidable.

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Principles are here to protect human being against abuses of power. Now I'm not talking about morality and so forth, I talking about Humanist principles that establish the State of Right without which "democracy" is a void term. I don' support those principles because of a spiritual reason, I support them because they create a political system that know which should be his goal : not to get more and more power, but to help its citizens and improve individual happiness.

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The point is not so abstract : it's on everyone's freedom. Letting politicians behaves so represent a real danger not a moral one. I never cared about morality.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

The point is not so abstract : it's on everyone's freedom. Letting politicians behaves so represent a real danger not a moral one. I never cared about morality.

The point precisely being that today I think the biggest match takes place on the ground of morality and sens. . We shouldn't put that much into politics, once again it is a rather technical thing. Though, as I said, it's not a reason to let it go, I blame and congratulate what I feel i have to, but I think today the biggest match is elsewhere...

[Antonio the Sixth]

The point is not so abstract : it's on everyone's freedom. Letting politicians behaves so represent a real danger not a moral one. I never cared about morality.

The point precisely being that today I think the biggest match takes place on the ground of morality and sens. . We shouldn't put that much into politics, once again it is a rather technical thing. Though, as I said, it's not a reason to let it go, I blame and congratulate what I feel i have to, but I think today the biggest match is elsewhere...

State of Right is the most important thing we have. Nothing comes before. Again, I know many people love to make it a moral issue, but it isn't. It's like saying that forbidding murder is a moral issue because First Commandment says we shouldn't.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

The point is not so abstract : it's on everyone's freedom. Letting politicians behaves so represent a real danger not a moral one. I never cared about morality.

The point precisely being that today I think the biggest match takes place on the ground of morality and sens. . We shouldn't put that much into politics, once again it is a rather technical thing. Though, as I said, it's not a reason to let it go, I blame and congratulate what I feel i have to, but I think today the biggest match is elsewhere...

State of Right is the most important thing we have. Nothing comes before. Again, I know many people love to make it a moral issue, but it isn't. It's like saying that forbidding murder is a moral issue because First Commandment says we shouldn't.

Héhé, your example just makes my point Antonio, why is that forbidden to murder?

Where do the principles of the "State of right" come from?

(oh f***, we're going in such a debate here, not sure that's the place for so, but, well...)

Anyways, outside of this, I wasn't even arguing in that garden with what I said before, I was just saying that, from a pragmatic point of view, the biggest fights to lead today are not to be led on the political ground first. Some have to be led on the political ground, but the more important ones today are beyond to me.

In short I think political doctrines can't fill the lacks of our epoch...

[Antonio the Sixth]

The point is not so abstract : it's on everyone's freedom. Letting politicians behaves so represent a real danger not a moral one. I never cared about morality.

The point precisely being that today I think the biggest match takes place on the ground of morality and sens. . We shouldn't put that much into politics, once again it is a rather technical thing. Though, as I said, it's not a reason to let it go, I blame and congratulate what I feel i have to, but I think today the biggest match is elsewhere...

State of Right is the most important thing we have. Nothing comes before. Again, I know many people love to make it a moral issue, but it isn't. It's like saying that forbidding murder is a moral issue because First Commandment says we shouldn't.

Héhé, your example just makes my point Antonio, why is that forbidden to murder?

Where do the principles of the "State of right" come from?

(oh f***, we're going in such a debate here, not sure that's the place for so, but, well...)

Very interesting debate : is it because religion said "Don't kill" that killing was forbidden, or is it because it was forbidden that religion said he was ?
Religion often traduces the current menatlity of the people, a mentality that correspond to dumb prejudices in a great part (homosexuality is evil !) but also to common sense (we can't let people kill each other).

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

The point is not so abstract : it's on everyone's freedom. Letting politicians behaves so represent a real danger not a moral one. I never cared about morality.

The point precisely being that today I think the biggest match takes place on the ground of morality and sens. . We shouldn't put that much into politics, once again it is a rather technical thing. Though, as I said, it's not a reason to let it go, I blame and congratulate what I feel i have to, but I think today the biggest match is elsewhere...

State of Right is the most important thing we have. Nothing comes before. Again, I know many people love to make it a moral issue, but it isn't. It's like saying that forbidding murder is a moral issue because First Commandment says we shouldn't.

Héhé, your example just makes my point Antonio, why is that forbidden to murder?

Where do the principles of the "State of right" come from?

(oh f***, we're going in such a debate here, not sure that's the place for so, but, well...)

Very interesting debate : is it because religion said "Don't kill" that killing was forbidden, or is it because it was forbidden that religion said he was ?
Religion often traduces the current menatlity of the people, a mentality that correspond to dumb prejudices in a great part (homosexuality is evil !) but also to common sense (we can't let people kill each other).

No matter where does this come from, it is not some political debates, actually.

[Хahar 🤔]

What's going on? I don't regularly access the French news.

[Hash]

What's going on? I don't regularly access the French news.

Clearstream trial with Villepin. Sarkozy said some stupid things insinuating he's guilty before the judgment even fell. It's the big thing on Les Guignols these days (they're the only sane and competent news source in France).

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

What's going on? I don't regularly access the French news.

Clearstream trial with Villepin. Sarkozy said some stupid things insinuating he's guilty before the judgment even fell. It's the big thing on Les Guignols these days (they're the only sane and competent news source in France).

The Guignols became more decent these very last times, would it be just the last year, I thought they were far too stupid and what they did was really too easy, I liked just about 50% of what they did. Though, since the beginning of this season, I find them pretty decent, I've been surprised, i'd buy 80% of what they do.

But still, considering they are a source of news, and moreover the best one, is stupid, just saying it because some seriously pretend that, which is a very good thing to feed the populism. They are good caricaturists, period.

[Antonio the Sixth]

(they're the only sane and competent news source in France).

Couldn't agree more.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

(they're the only sane and competent news source in France).

Couldn't agree more.

Héhé, yup, my pessimist thoughts are justified, look at this youth we have...

[Antonio the Sixth]

(they're the only sane and competent news source in France).

Couldn't agree more.

Héhé, yup, my pessimist thoughts are justified, look at this youth we have...

Their caricatures are not superficial, they manage to get the essential of every politician.
For example, I really like Jospin but I find his "Guignol" is a perfect caricature of him.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

(they're the only sane and competent news source in France).

Couldn't agree more.

Héhé, yup, my pessimist thoughts are justified, look at this youth we have...

Their caricatures are not superficial, they manage to get the essential of every politician.
For example, I really like Jospin but I find his "Guignol" is a perfect caricature of him.

I'd pretty agree since the beginning of this season, but for the last years, 50% of what they did was damn bad in my opinion. Since the beginning of this season they have stopped to do very easy things and all that stuffs about physic of people, that was damn boring and stupid.

But, once again, they can make very good caricatures, which are necessary to be done, but going on "Guignols say the truth" (for those who would more or less seriously go through it) is a pretty bad thing, encouraging populist tendencies, in short that's pretty demagogic, and especially when we see the seasons preceding this one. But even this season, it remains just some caricatures, and some are still excessive, that brings some good necessary breathes, but it hasn't to be too much seriously taken.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I honestly don't know what you are talking about. That being sai, I should precise that I've never seen the "daily Guignols", but only their annuan "Best ofs".

[PGSable]

In addition to the regional primaries yesterday, the PS held referenda. Turnout was at 46%.

Open primaries to all voters
YES 67,91 %

Open primaries to candidates from all leftist parties
YES 69,94 %

Bar PS members of Parliament from serving simultaneously as presidents of a local collectivity
YES 71,90 %

Bar PS members from cumulating over three local presidencies
YES 75,41 %

Apply parity laws to all party offices
YES 70,88 %

Apply parity laws to the 2012 legislative elections
YES 71,67 %

Allow the PS to reserve constituencies to ensure diversity (whatever that means)
YES 60,90 %

Make it easier to become a member of the PS
YES 73,89 %

Allow the PS to improve its system for electing leaders
YES 77,82 %

Create an independent body within the PS to rule on ethics laws
YES 80,33 %

Change internal vote rules to avoid voter fraud
YES 86,88 %