Are new hampshire and Maine libertarian?

[Smash255]

Actually the above posters are right that suburban whites fleeing Massachusetts helped push the state to the Right in the 80's and 90's. While the orther Northern New England States like Vermont and Maine were left relatively unchanged and have since moved much farther to the left then New Hampshire if anything New Hampshire moved in the opposite direction, towards the GOP. The continued trends among Native New Hampshire residents, migrants from other states, and Canada have since 2000 moved the State to the left.

Neither are libertarian. Maine is a socially Liberal, economically moderate to populist state. New Hampshire is a fiscally conservative(but decreasingly so) socially moderate state. If the GOP in Northern New England could somehow seperate itself from the National GOP they could indeed restore some modicum of success in Maine, New Hampshire, and even in Vermont.

The Republican Party in Maine seems pretty strong. They have 2 Republican senators (albeit very moderate ones).

That is all they basically have.  Governor is a Democrat, both members of Congress are Democrats, both the state Senate (20-15) and State House (95-55-1) are controlled by the Dems as well.

True but it is generally beleived that if the Republicans were to recover in New England it would have to start in Maine since it has become relatively stable at least while Republicans are still in a downward spiral in New Hampshire.

Though they are still losing ground there, dropped 2 seats in the state Senate and 4 in the State House last year, with the Dems also gaining an Independent seat, (though the GOP did gain one seat back in a Special election).  Granted the state GOP might not be in the utter free fall they are in NH, they are in pretty poor shape in Maine as well.

[Dan the Roman]

Actually the above posters are right that suburban whites fleeing Massachusetts helped push the state to the Right in the 80's and 90's. While the orther Northern New England States like Vermont and Maine were left relatively unchanged and have since moved much farther to the left then New Hampshire if anything New Hampshire moved in the opposite direction, towards the GOP. The continued trends among Native New Hampshire residents, migrants from other states, and Canada have since 2000 moved the State to the left.

Neither are libertarian. Maine is a socially Liberal, economically moderate to populist state. New Hampshire is a fiscally conservative(but decreasingly so) socially moderate state. If the GOP in Northern New England could somehow seperate itself from the National GOP they could indeed restore some modicum of success in Maine, New Hampshire, and even in Vermont.

The Republican Party in Maine seems pretty strong. They have 2 Republican senators (albeit very moderate ones).

That is all they basically have.  Governor is a Democrat, both members of Congress are Democrats, both the state Senate (20-15) and State House (95-55-1) are controlled by the Dems as well.

True but it is generally beleived that if the Republicans were to recover in New England it would have to start in Maine since it has become relatively stable at least while Republicans are still in a downward spiral in New Hampshire.

Though they are still losing ground there, dropped 2 seats in the state Senate and 4 in the State House last year, with the Dems also gaining an Independent seat, (though the GOP did gain one seat back in a Special election).  Granted the state GOP might not be in the utter free fall they are in NH, they are in pretty poor shape in Maine as well.

To be fair they had Obama at the top of the ticket winning nearly 60% of the vote, and both State Senate seats were ones in which Obama was probably at 63-64% at a minimum. The GOP has done well to maintain competitive and was within a thousand votes of taking control of the state senate in 2002, 2004, and 2006.

The State House is another story, and there incompetence at the center, bad choices in the primaries, and a trend away from the type of abrasive conservatism that used to work all contribute to a bad situation.

[Lunar]

libertarian

or

relatively libertarian?

[Brittain33]

Talk to New Hampshire Republicans or conservative/libertarian independents (and I have) and they'll say just the opposite, that its the "Massholes" that are ruining their state.

Talk to anyone in New Hampshire or Maine about any trend they dislike and you will hear that "Massholes" are ruining their state. It proves nothing.

[Brittain33]

100 years ago I will bet that Northern New England would have beat many other regions of the country in religiousity. Why has this been almost completely reversed since then? The children of overly religious parents breaking away yet keeping there affliations to there churches. I mean there is almost nothing Puritanical about the Congregationalist or Unitarian churches anymore.

I think it reflects national trends. Mainstream Protestantism, ethnic white Catholicism, and all branches of Judaism other than ultra-Orthodox have seen big drop-offs. Evangelical Protestantism, both native and immigrant, are where you see the biggest increases and they're largely absent from New England outside of some evangelical congregations in Maine and immigrants in the Boston area. New England denominations aren't behaving much differently than they are elsewhere in the U.S., but their proportions are very different.

The influence of the Catholic Church has declined substantially because of generational change (in addition to liberalization, people move more so they're less bound to their home parishes) and because of sex abuse scandals.

Holmes... if you want to see why Catholic observance in Maine, New Hampshire, and Rhode Island has dropped off... many of these congregants have cousins in Quebec, and the trends there are even more marked.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Catholic observance has dropped EVERYWHERE in the US that doesn't have lots of immigrants. White Catholics are abandoning it in droves, as many as 1/3 have rejected it according to Pew.

[Alexander Hamilton]

The article directly above this post is wrong. The majority of Mass. residents who have moved to New Hampshire vote Republican. The border towns where Mass. transplants are moving (Salem, Windham, Hudson, Atkinson, etc.) are the most heavily Republican towns in the state.

It is NH natives and transplants from other states that have flocked to the Democratic party in recent years.

Good to see you post again, Scoonie. Republicans have a bizarre attachment to the myth that "out-of-staters"- whether it's "New Yorkers" in Vermont or "Taxachusetts leftists" in New Hampshire- are primarily responsible for shifting states to the left.

He said leftists you twat.

"Leftists" moving to New Hampshire are heavily outnumbered by Republicans, twat.

Doesn't change what he said, which, in effect, makes you completely wrong.

[Governor PiT]

 I heard that both states are fiscal conservative and social liberal or moderate ...

I think that description fits New Hampshire pretty well. I'm not sure about Maine, although I do know that Maine has a high number of independents (38%).

Maine was Ross Perot's best state besides Alaska.

[Joe Republic]

Maine was Ross Perot's best state besides Alaska.

Maine was Ross Perot's best state, period.  1992 and 1996.

[Stranger in a strange land]

"Leftists" moving to New Hampshire are heavily outnumbered by Republicans, twat.

No proof of this claim has been demonstrated. Presumably anecdotal claims from a New Hampshire Democrat are not particularly convincing. Talk to New Hampshire Republicans or conservative/libertarian independents (and I have) and they'll say just the opposite, that its the "Massholes" that are ruining their state.

Of course there are Republicans and independents among the migrants, but there is no reason to believe that they "heavily outnumber" Democrats.

The Boston Globe Magazine article I posted was neither the first nor the only source to at least partially attribute NH's leftward trend to migration from other states. To simply claim it is "wrong" is wrong.

Living in a state doesn't automatically give you special insights as to its politics, especially as your own perceptions are skewed by your family, friends, and acquaintances, who more often than not tend to be like you.

Please look at the county map from the 2008 election: McCain did best in the Southern part of the state, which has the most Massachusetts migrants and where many people in fact commute to work in Massachusetts. Up north, Obama won by much wider margins, and these areas, largely as a result of being economically depressed, have experienced little migration from Massachusetts, or anywhere else for that matter.

[Alcon]

Living in a state doesn't automatically give you special insights as to its politics, especially as your own perceptions are skewed by your family, friends, and acquaintances, who more often than not tend to be like you.

This is not said nearly often enough here.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

New Hampshire is so libertarian that you can only buy hard liquor from the state, and only the kinds that they feel like selling.

[Alexander Hamilton]

New Hampshire is so libertarian that you can only buy hard liquor from the state, and only the kinds that they feel like selling.

Yikes

[Governor PiT]

Maine was Ross Perot's best state besides Alaska.

Maine was Ross Perot's best state, period.  1992 and 1996.

I am suprised it wasn's Ron Paul's best state than.

[aaaa2222]

Maine was Ross Perot's best state besides Alaska.

Maine was Ross Perot's best state, period.  1992 and 1996.

I am suprised it wasn's Ron Paul's best state than.

Ron Paul is far more radical that Perot.

[Associate Justice PiT]

libertarian

or

relatively libertarian?

     This. Maine & New Hampshire are more libertarian than most states in the union. Even so, someone like me or SPC would be dismissed as utterly insane if we actually tried to run for office there.

[Dan the Roman]

"Leftists" moving to New Hampshire are heavily outnumbered by Republicans, twat.

No proof of this claim has been demonstrated. Presumably anecdotal claims from a New Hampshire Democrat are not particularly convincing. Talk to New Hampshire Republicans or conservative/libertarian independents (and I have) and they'll say just the opposite, that its the "Massholes" that are ruining their state.

Of course there are Republicans and independents among the migrants, but there is no reason to believe that they "heavily outnumber" Democrats.

The Boston Globe Magazine article I posted was neither the first nor the only source to at least partially attribute NH's leftward trend to migration from other states. To simply claim it is "wrong" is wrong.

Living in a state doesn't automatically give you special insights as to its politics, especially as your own perceptions are skewed by your family, friends, and acquaintances, who more often than not tend to be like you.

Please look at the county map from the 2008 election: McCain did best in the Southern part of the state, which has the most Massachusetts migrants and where many people in fact commute to work in Massachusetts. Up north, Obama won by much wider margins, and these areas, largely as a result of being economically depressed, have experienced little migration from Massachusetts, or anywhere else for that matter.

Not quite accurate. A large part of the migration is Massachusetts residents retiring to their second homes, which are generally not in the Southern part of the state, but in the Lakes Region. If you look at the areas that have swung the most, it is in Belknap, Carroll, Merrimack, and Grafton. What these hold in common is that almost no one works in real positions, but in the tourism/temporary resident industry, especially in the former two. The type of affluent Massacushetts residents who have flooded in here are very socially liberal.

In addition, most are economically "liberal" as well. Most support the income tax not because they like taxes, but because most of their income is made in Massachusetts, they would not have to pay it, whereas they do have to pay local property taxes. So most favor getting rid of the property taxes in favor of the state income one. They are the bank-rollers and backers of the left-wing of the Democratic party in the state. This incentive structure by the way also applies to commuters in the south.

[Brittain33]

I am not going to dispute your point, but I find it funny because the only affluent Masshole I know of who has left Massachusetts to live in that part of the state is Mitt Romney. (Of course there are others.)

Not quite accurate. A large part of the migration is Massachusetts residents retiring to their second homes, which are generally not in the Southern part of the state, but in the Lakes Region. If you look at the areas that have swung the most, it is in Belknap, Carroll, Merrimack, and Grafton. What these hold in common is that almost no one works in real positions, but in the tourism/temporary resident industry, especially in the former two. The type of affluent Massacushetts residents who have flooded in here are very socially liberal.

In addition, most are economically "liberal" as well. Most support the income tax not because they like taxes, but because most of their income is made in Massachusetts, they would not have to pay it, whereas they do have to pay local property taxes. So most favor getting rid of the property taxes in favor of the state income one. They are the bank-rollers and backers of the left-wing of the Democratic party in the state. This incentive structure by the way also applies to commuters in the south.

[Kevinstat]

Socially, I think the median Maine voter is socially moderate-to-liberal and votes for candidates who say they are socially moderate but are really socially liberal.  Citizen's initiatives and people's vetos (aka tha popular referendum) on social issues generally go the liberal way nowadays, although often with the conservative side initially ahead in the polls and with a gay rights law being rejected in winter 1998 (successful people's veto) and November 2000 (rejected legislative referendum) before being passed in November 2005 (failed people's veto).

Fiscally, I think the median Maine voter's vote will be up for grabs in referendum elections, although with the opposition to whatever tax cap or Taxpayer Bill of Rights citizen initiative is on the ballot generally prevailing in the end, coming from behind in the case of TABOR 2006.  In elections to an office, I think the median Maine voter will vote for candidates who claim to be fiscally conservative and will vote to reelect them as long as they don't keep their word but are able to point to certian legislation to make a case that they have.

On land use issues (clearcutting, bear trapping, nuclear power), citizen initiatives (always launched by those on the liberal side (or leftist end, depending on your point of view) have always failed as far as I can tell, although they sometimes start ahead in the polls before the better financed and usually more savvy opposition turns the tide with their ad campaign.

Casino citizen initiatives (always launched by advocates of one) generally fail and those referenda may be done for a while, although a Bangor "racino" (off track slots near a horse-racing track; statewide question) citizan initiative passed in 2003 and a Waskington County tribal "racino" casino (also a statewide question) only lost by 4.5% in 2007.  The pro-casino/racino side's numbers seem to always go south in October.  The Legislature has been pro-gambling in recent years (actually passing the 2007 Washington County racino initiative itself before Governor Baldacci vetoed it, and coming pretty close I believe to overriding Baldacci's veto).  Governor Baldacci has been staunchly anti-gambling, although I'm not sure how much if at all he got involved on the Bangor racino question (there was a southern Maine tribal casino initiative, initially ahead but tanking badly in October, at the same time and the racino may have benefitted as the more "moderate" proposal).

I hope that gives you kind of an idea of the median Maine voter.

[Eraserhead]

No.