Tax bill pros and cons?

[Progressive]

A number of my left-wing friends have said, "as much as it sucks that it's a corporate give away, I desperately need to keep some more money." Most of my friends makes between $35k and $55k (myself included). What's the best argument to use to encourage my friends not to support this tax plan?

[Pennsylvania Deplorable]

It will likely increase the debt, though the mentality of "I could use a little more cash" likely trumps that. Otherwise, it doesn't really hurt anybody directly and should keep the economy going strong. I just wish that it had 1) simplified the tax code more 2) cut loopholes used by corporations and 3) cut rates more for the middle class instead of the top (which would increase consumer confidence and spending, boosting business without it being trickle down)

[Antonio the Sixth]

There are literally no pros unless you're a millionaire or (especially) a billionaire.

[Dr. MB]

There are literally no pros unless you're a millionaire or (especially) a billionaire.

[darklordoftech]

There are literally no pros unless you're a millionaire or (especially) a billionaire.

[Bismarck]

There are literally no pros unless you're a millionaire or (especially) a billionaire.

Unless you are a wealthy person in New York or have no income you will almost certainly get a tax cut. Even if you don’t support this tax bill, you surely can’t say you’d rather not have a tax cut?

[Antonio the Sixth]

There are literally no pros unless you're a millionaire or (especially) a billionaire.

Unless you are a wealthy person in New York or have no income you will almost certainly get a tax cut. Even if you don’t support this tax bill, you surely can’t say you’d rather not have a tax cut?

If that tax cut is paid for in a way that makes my health insurance unaffordable, no, I'd rather not.

[GM Team Member and Deputy PPT WB]

It's more of a tax break to wealthier people than the common people. Also higher deficits now may mean higher taxes to counter that later in Trump's term. Basically, all that money that you'll get (a few thousand, maybe) will be gone pretty soon.

[Mr. Reactionary]

What's the best argument to use to encourage my friends not to support this tax plan?

Lie about it by claiming it only helps the rich.

[GM Team Member and Deputy PPT WB]

Also, later on those that want to decrease the deficit are likely to do so by cutting social security, medicare, or medicaid, all of which are programs that those in the middle class that are getting tax cuts use, so overall, they are going to be worse off.

[Del Tachi]

What's the best argument to use to encourage my friends not to support this tax plan?

Lie about it by claiming it only helps the rich.

[IceSpear]

What's the best argument to use to encourage my friends not to support this tax plan?

Lie about it by claiming it only helps the rich.

Yeah, only 99% of it helps the rich.

[Del Tachi]

What's the best argument to use to encourage my friends not to support this tax plan?

Lie about it by claiming it only helps the rich.

Yeah, only 99% of it helps the rich.

Then why does even the left-leaning Tax Policy Center admit that 80% of households will see a tax cut (averaging almost $1,600 per household) and that only 5% of households will see their tax liability increase by more than $10?

[IceSpear]

What's the best argument to use to encourage my friends not to support this tax plan?

Lie about it by claiming it only helps the rich.

Yeah, only 99% of it helps the rich.

Then why does even the left-leaning Tax Policy Center admit that 80% of households will see a tax cut (averaging almost $1,600 per household) and that only 5% of households will see their tax liability increase by more than $10?

I didn't say it ONLY helps the rich. But between massively lowering the corporate tax rate, lowering the top bracket tax rate, scaling back the estate tax, and the individual cuts having an expiration date, the rich will be reaping the vast majority of the benefits. The fact that a tiny portion of the lost revenue will be temporarily devoted to appeasing the little people hardly changes that fact.

[Del Tachi]

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Well god forbid that a tax cut actually benefit those individuals who pay taxes.

The top 5% of households already pay 59% of all federal income taxes despite making less than 35% of all income. 

The bottom 50% of households doesn't even pay 3% of income taxes.

There's no way to cut taxes that benefits the middle and lower classes when these income categories aren't even paying taxes to begin with.

[IceSpear]

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Well god forbid that a tax cut actually benefit those individuals who pay taxes.

The top 5% of households already pay 59% of all federal income taxes despite making less than 35% of all income. 

The bottom 50% of households doesn't even pay 3% of income taxes.

There's no way to cut taxes that benefits the middle and lower classes when these income categories aren't even paying taxes to begin with.

So then you admit the bill will mostly help the rich, which is exactly what I said, and which was supposedly a "lie."

"Of course the wealthy are the ones benefiting from the estate tax change, lower and middle classes don't have an estate!" Yes, which is exactly why it's a benefit for the rich only, just like the vast majority of the bill!

Your rebuttal may be correct. But we're not arguing on whether to spend $1.5 trillion cutting taxes for rich people or poor people. We're arguing about whether or not to cut taxes at all, and if so, to whom and how much lost revenue is acceptable. Needless to say, I disagree with the GOP bill on all those aspects, which answered with, respectively: "Yes, almost entirely the uber wealthy, and having as much discretion as a drunken sailor."

[junior chįmp]

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Well god forbid that a tax cut actually benefit those individuals who pay taxes.

The top 5% of households already pay 59% of all federal income taxes despite making less than 35% of all income. 

The bottom 50% of households doesn't even pay 3% of income taxes.

There's no way to cut taxes that benefits the middle and lower classes when these income categories aren't even paying taxes to begin with.

Well then, the GOP probably shouldn't of sold it as a "middle class tax cuts," with a repeal of the "death tax" to help "family farmers." According to Trump, it's "the biggest tax cuts for the middle class ever."

Frankly I could care less about the tax cuts bill itself. My problem with this scam is that it won't do jack shít to improve the economy and it will explode the deficit...all from a party of hacks that's been shutting down the government since Gingrich  was speaker over "reigning in these tax and spend Democrats who run up the debt."

[IceSpear]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Well god forbid that a tax cut actually benefit those individuals who pay taxes.

The top 5% of households already pay 59% of all federal income taxes despite making less than 35% of all income. 

The bottom 50% of households doesn't even pay 3% of income taxes.

There's no way to cut taxes that benefits the middle and lower classes when these income categories aren't even paying taxes to begin with.

Well then, the GOP probably shouldn't of sold it as a "middle class tax cuts," with a repeal of the "death tax" to help "family farmers." According to Trump, it's "the biggest tax cuts for the middle class ever."

Frankly I could care less about the tax cuts bill itself. My problem with this scam is that it won't do jack shít to improve the economy and it will explode the deficit...all from a party of hacks that's been shutting down the government since Gingrich  was speaker over "reigning in these tax and spend Democrats who run up the debt."

Yes, if we're all going to be honest, let's trade: Dems can stop saying this will increase most people's taxes if the GOP stops acting like this is anything other than a giveaway to the rich.

[Del Tachi]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Well god forbid that a tax cut actually benefit those individuals who pay taxes.

The top 5% of households already pay 59% of all federal income taxes despite making less than 35% of all income. 

The bottom 50% of households doesn't even pay 3% of income taxes.

There's no way to cut taxes that benefits the middle and lower classes when these income categories aren't even paying taxes to begin with.

Well then, the GOP probably shouldn't of sold it as a "middle class tax cuts," with a repeal of the "death tax" to help "family farmers." According to Trump, it's "the biggest tax cuts for the middle class ever."

Frankly I could care less about the tax cuts bill itself. My problem with this scam is that it won't do jack shít to improve the economy and it will explode the deficit...all from a party of hacks that's been shutting down the government since Gingrich  was speaker over "reigning in these tax and spend Democrats who run up the debt."

Yes, if we're all going to be honest, let's trade: Dems can stop saying this will increase most people's taxes if the GOP stops acting like this is anything other than a giveaway to the rich.

I'd be happy with this arrangement.  Tax cuts should be beneficial to those who pay the lion's share of taxes anyway.

However, I'd argue that the left is being more disingenuous when they outright deny the tax relief that this will provide of middle income households.  The GOP at least has the facts right, even if they are trying to portray them in a bended manner.

[RINO Tom]

What's the best argument to use to encourage my friends not to support this tax plan?

Lie about it by claiming it only helps the rich.

Yeah, only 99% of it helps the rich.

Then why does even the left-leaning Tax Policy Center admit that 80% of households will see a tax cut (averaging almost $1,600 per household) and that only 5% of households will see their tax liability increase by more than $10?

I didn't say it ONLY helps the rich. But between massively lowering the corporate tax rate, lowering the top bracket tax rate, scaling back the estate tax, and the individual cuts having an expiration date, the rich will be reaping the vast majority of the benefits. The fact that a tiny portion of the lost revenue will be temporarily devoted to appeasing the little people hardly changes that fact.

I've even seen red avatars on this site call for a lower corporate tax rate ... I think it's silly to say that lowering it is some handout to the super wealthy.  It helps damn near everyone.