Obama's "church"

[MODU]

Attacking Obama for the church he attends which also is attended by Oprah is not going to work.

I don't think you need to attack him (or her) over it, but just ask why he would be a part of a congregation that is led by a minister which he doesn't agree with.  Call me crazy, but if you didn't agree with your Ministers message, wouldn't you leave and go somewhere else?

[MODU]

I would also like to see him add to that "And I expressed to the Minister that such comments are not Biblically related and do not belong in the sermons."

[MODU]

Attacking Obama for the church he attends which also is attended by Oprah is not going to work.

I don't think you need to attack him (or her) over it, but just ask why he would be a part of a congregation that is led by a minister which he doesn't agree with.  Call me crazy, but if you didn't agree with your Ministers message, wouldn't you leave and go somewhere else?

How many people who attend church agree with their pastor/ priest on everything?  I would say very few in fact their are probably many who strongly disagree with their church and their church's leaders on certain issues.  I don't see how this is Pastor Wright's message as opposed  to his wrongheaded opinion on a few things.  the message seems to be to come together as a community, help the less fortunate, civil rights.  Those seem to be the actual messages of the church, not Wright's ridiclous opinion on a few subjects.  

His sermons should not be opinions though.  They should be topics taught out of the Bible.  Preaching that the US didn't blink when they bombed Japan is a) not Biblical and, b) completely wrong (as there are historical text that contradicts the Minister). 

As far as people not agreeing with the messages, their job is to discuss the issues with the Minister and the Elders to find resolution.  If Obama has not done so, then that means he agrees with content of the sermons.  If he says he has not discussed his concerns of the content with the Minister or Elders, he then would have to explain why he remains in a church that preaches against the Bible on highly-controversial issues.  It would be a fair request.

[MODU]

Their is no indication that the controversial comments made were in any way shape or form anything other than a very minute portion of comments he has mde in his sermons.  Not to mention virtually every preacher out there has made comments in their sermons that don't coincide with the bible.  The comments were indeed awful and Obama has condemned them, however he shouldn't be questioned on why he still attends the church when he strongly disagrees with some of the  comments his pastor mas made when they ar a very small portion of the comments he has made.  If this was a major theme of the church, thats one thing, but it wasn't.

There is a difference between condemning the comments and confronting the Minister and the Elders about the comments.  It shows a level of involvement with the church and concern for the fellow members as well as the integrity of the message.  Additionally, a single comment or two, one could let pass.  But he has a series of controversial comments now (which we now have a thread growing on the various quotes).  More than two, and the Elders should have either pulled the Minister from the pulpit and/or the congregation should have begun to find new church homes ... unless these are items which they believe in (which goes back to my original comment).

[MODU]

A handful of comments over many years.  Again I believe these comments are wrong and Obama should speak out against them which he has done.  However there is nothing to indicate these comments made up anything more than a very remote portion of his services

You miss the point.  They shouldn't be in the sermon at all, especially hateful comments.  The clip of his "God dam America" rant went on for over 2 minutes, and probably continued longer than that in full.  That isn't a "very remote portion" of the sermon.  And with people seen standing, clapping, and hopping about, it's clear that the congregation agrees with and/or supports it and was probably expected.  Similiar reactions are visible in the videos of the Minister "going at it" when talking about Bill Clinton riding Monica Lewinski.  These videos alone will hurt some of his in-roads with the South where he was expected to do well.

Puhleeze....show me that the big O subscribes to this guy's crap......those would be facts.

The only "fact" that is needed is that he's been a member at this church for 12 years, and the Minister has been there the entire time.  So, as I was mentioning to Smash, unless Obama can show that he's confronted the Minister and the Elders about the content of the sermons and/or searched for an alternate Church home, his membership is a sign that he "subscribes to this guy's crap."

[MODU]

Gee...give it a rest. This is stupid and hurting the country.

Ok, let's restructure the discussion here to remove any ties to the current candidates as a logical exercise.

1) What would your opinion be if some generic candidate (republican or democrat) was a member of the Westboro Baptist Church but said he didn't agree with some of the comments made by Fred Phelps?

2) What would your opinion be if some generic candidate (republican or democrat) was a member of the KKK but said he didn't agree in negative treatment of non-whites?

3) What would your opinion be if some generic candidate (republican or democrat) was a member of PETA but didn't believe that people should become vegetarians?

[MODU]

The comparison is a bit silly.  These comments were a very small portion of what Pastor Wright has said, and has nothing to do with the overall message of the church.  The Westboro Baptst Church is all about hate, it isn't a small portion of what the leader believes in, its a very large portion of what he believes in, what he preachees and the message.
same thing with the KKK & PETA anaolgies. 

Yet while it might be a small portion, this is all the people will see, which is why I chose the examples that I did, and that is why I'm trying to get a point across.  It's one thing to say you disagree with what the Minister says during his sermon, but the fact that he remains a member for 12 years where these comments continue to arise creates doubts in the minds of those who pay attention that Obama is being sincere.  If he had such a problem with the comments in the sermons that he feels he needs to distance himself with the Minister, why didn't he switch congregations years ago?  For many evangelicals and/or Southern blacks who could consider voting for him, this will be a distinct issue that he needs to explain in order to regain their trust.  Otherwise, he can be consider as the same old kind of politician who will say anything to get elected . . . the same kind of politics that Obama is campaigning against.

[MODU]

Again the reason why he didn't distance himself from the Congregation is because it makes up a very minute portion of what Pastor Wright has had to say.  If this was anything other than a small portion of the Church, Pastor Wright or his views than you might have an argument, but the fact of the matter is, it was only a very small portion of views expressed by Wright and really had nothing to do with the overall emssage of the church.

I understand your point, but since we really don't know what all his sermons are like, we have to look at this as the general public who are not political geeks like us.  Call it free campaign advice to Obama and his staff to start working on before this gets bigger as more video clips and quotes are released.

[MODU]

As I said about oprah though, I think its going to be hard to paint the church Obama goes to as some radical church when its also attended by Oprah.

That too is true.  Speaking of which, I haven't seen her with Obama lately.

[MODU]

As I said about oprah though, I think its going to be hard to paint the church Obama goes to as some radical church when its also attended by Oprah.

That too is true.  Speaking of which, I haven't seen her with Obama lately.

Well she does have a job of her own and a show to tape.  IIRC believe the majority of the time when she was campaigning with him was during a span when her show was not in prodction.

Makes sense.  And she has that other show going on too (but I assume that one was filmed in advance).

[MODU]

1) What would your opinion be if some generic candidate (republican or democrat) was a member of the Westboro Baptist Church but said he didn't agree with some of the comments made by Fred Phelps?

Hell. That happens all of the time. Your candidate praises a guy who actively hates catholics.

2) What would your opinion be if some generic candidate (republican or democrat) was a member of the KKK but said he didn't agree in negative treatment of non-whites?

Ummmm...wha? Comparing this to a member in the KKK shows how disgraceful this attack is.

3) What would your opinion be if some generic candidate (republican or democrat) was a member of PETA but didn't believe that people should become vegetarians?

I'm sure there are people like this.

*sigh*

[MODU]

Obama came out and made the smart statement: "If I heard these comments repeatedly, then yes, I would have quit."

[MODU]

This thread is the perfect example of how the forum has become nothing more than an anti-Obama echo chamber.

Not really.  This forum is more anti-Killary than anything else.  Most of the Democrats and some of the Indies are pro-Obama, while the most of the others are pro-McCain.  Can't see how that is an anti-Obama echo chamber.