Non-religious people only: Is religion basically just a big glorified scam?

[America Needs a 13-6 Progressive SCOTUS]

Interested in the results of this poll.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Threads like this is why you get the fedora. Please save this stuff for Reddit.

[If my soul was made of stone]

I don't think that you have the right to call anything "a big glorified scam" given that you think that RationalWiki is an academically rigorous and reliable source. I have no interest in hearing my most intimately-held beliefs unconditionally scorned by someone whose intellectual rigor is far less than that of plenty of folk who, you know, devote themselves to studying religion.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

People who agree with me only: Am I right?

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

lol no

[Kingpoleon]

I don't think that you have the right to call anything "a big glorified scam" given that you think that RationalWiki is an academically rigorous and reliable source. I have no interest in hearing my most intimately-held beliefs unconditionally scorned by someone whose intellectual rigor is far less than that of plenty of folk who, you know, devote themselves to studying religion.

Why be religious when you could just believe in Empirical Stuff like memes, a simulated universe, a multiverse, or Science and Logic?

[afleitch]

I'll bite, rather than feign horror that such a question be asked in the first place.

Faith is not a scam. It is both a personal journey and personal investment.

Religion can be; not strictly 'churches' per se, but more the religious industry that flows from it. Christian Prosperity is a scam. 'Ex-gay/Side B' is a scam. Purity culture is a scam. Those that cut you off from friends and family are scams. Churches whose primary message/marketing is linked to scams like these are scams.

[John Dule]

Threads like this is why you get the fedora.

Sorry theists, but in a silly hat competition you guys win hands-down.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

I'll bite, rather than feign horror that such a question be asked in the first place.

Faith is not a scam. It is both a personal journey and personal investment.

Religion can be; not strictly 'churches' per se, but more the religious industry that flows from it. Christian Prosperity is a scam. 'Ex-gay/Side B' is a scam. Purity culture is a scam. Those that cut you off from friends and family are scams. Churches whose primary message/marketing is linked to scams like these are scams.

OP was asking his question just to non-religious people. I don't think that's a constructive way to argue or start a debate here, but I basically agree with your characterization of, mainly, evangelical culture in the United States as well as many flavors of Roman Catholicism in a lot of those cases.

[Battista Minola 1616]

I showed a bot all previous posts by Solid, Scott, discovolante, Harry S Truman, Blairite, Kingpoleon, afleitch and John Dule on the topic of religion and this thread is what it generated.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Religion is too complex and universal a phenomenon to be reduced to something as trite. Sometimes it is (e.g. Scientology), most of the time I don't think so. Scam would require religious leaders to be consciously ripping people off with what they know to be falsehoods, which I don't think even something like purity culture qualifies as.

[John Dule]

I showed a bot all previous posts by Solid, Scott, discovolante, Harry S Truman, Blairite, Kingpoleon, afleitch and John Dule on the topic of religion and this thread is what it generated.

The staying-above-the-fray shtick gets old after a while, especially if your name isn't PennQuakerGirl. You'll have to wade back in eventually, and every day you spend on the sidelines is a day your tongue becomes less sharp.

[Battista Minola 1616]

I showed a bot all previous posts by Solid, Scott, discovolante, Harry S Truman, Blairite, Kingpoleon, afleitch and John Dule on the topic of religion and this thread is what it generated.

The staying-above-the-fray shtick gets old after a while, especially if your name isn't PennQuakerGirl. You'll have to wade back in eventually, and every day you spend on the sidelines is a day your tongue becomes less sharp.

That was not a shtick. But to tell the full story, I briefly considered answering "Yes (not non-religious)" then decided it was too edgy.

[LBJer]

I voted no.  While I personally think the idea of God is, honestly, downright stupid, that doesn't mean that if someone believes in God (or some other higher power(s)) they are stupid.  That is clearly not the case--there have obviously been many brilliant religious people throughout history.  The convictions of people who are sincerely religious are deeply felt.  I strongly disagree with them, but that doesn't necessarily mean I'm right and they're wrong.

While there definitely are certain people who are phonies and use religion for their own personal gain--for example, some televangelists--religion cannot be dismissed as a "scam." 

[Tintrlvr]

At the "top," yes. (And "top" is fairly broadly defined, particularly in religions that are decentralized; your local nondenominational Christian minister might be at the top of his or her church, for example.) Many people in positions of power in religion (though nowhere close to all, and in some religions probably not even a majority) really do believe religion, but ultimately those at the top believe in it in part through motivated reasoning: They believe because belief benefits them materially and mentally, much as we accept that many political beliefs are held not as a result of reasoned study but because believing otherwise would undermine other beliefs, cultural attitudes and positions we take and our material welfare. This is pretty basic psychology. And from there, it's clear that their positions on religion, including the trajectory the faithful should take, is generally motivated by their own well-being primarily, though often not consciously.

"Scam" is perhaps a strong word for the above, but they're all motivated by something other than the purity that all religions in some way profess to be about.

[Kingpoleon]

At the "top," yes. (And "top" is fairly broadly defined, particularly in religions that are decentralized; your local nondenominational Christian minister might be at the top of his or her church, for example.) Many people in positions of power in religion (though nowhere close to all, and in some religions probably not even a majority) really do believe religion, but ultimately those at the top believe in it in part through motivated reasoning: They believe because belief benefits them materially and mentally, much as we accept that many political beliefs are held not as a result of reasoned study but because believing otherwise would undermine other beliefs, cultural attitudes and positions we take and our material welfare. This is pretty basic psychology. And from there, it's clear that their positions on religion, including the trajectory the faithful should take, is generally motivated by their own well-being primarily, though often not consciously.

"Scam" is perhaps a strong word for the above, but they're all motivated by something other than the purity that all religions in some way profess to be about.

Please do go on and tell us more about how explaining the origin of a belief invalidates any such belief. I think there’s a name for such a ploy.

[HisGrace]

Didn't vote no because there are certainly a great many people who have used religion to personally enrich themselves. But it is not necessarily one and serves the social purpose of imposing systems of ethics onto people.

[Figueira]

Certainly some religious organizations, but not "religion" in general.