Netherlands Plans Expansion of Child Euthanasia Policy

[Jens]

191. Denmark
192. Sweden (from 193)
193. Netherlands (from 192)

LOL - we are so sinful... (but the Swedes are worse, so that's ok)

[Jens]

Anywat legalised euthanasia is an interesting issue. As it is today disguised euthanasia is rather commom. You basically give the terminally ill person an overdosis painkillers fx morphin, typically after asking the relatives if the doctors should give the terminally ill person enough to easen the pain. The question is ofcourse where is the limit. Well, I don't really know how to define when it's ok and when it's not.

[Jens]

I support euthanasia and assisted suicide i'm afraid. So for me Holland is making a progresive choice.

Then in your eyes Hitler was making progress as well. Hitler allowed euthanasia of infants as well. We already know the Dutch don't believe in prosecuting murderers no shock then they want to kill infants and marry homosexuals.

And then he pulled the Hitler card
1) Hitler allowed the brutal murder of Jews, Romas, any that disagreed with him ect
2) The notion that the Netherlands don't prosecute murderers are just silly. Disagree with the verdict and the time they serve, but murder is a quite serious crime in the Netherlands
3) kiiling infants having a bad day, ey?!
4) my my marrying homosexuals - what has that to do with euthanasia? could this be the decline and fall of Western Civilization

[Jens]

You don't support child euthanasia do you?

I know of cases when early born brain damaged children are kept alive for years where putting them out of their missery would be a good thing. As I say earlier in this thread, I look upon it as a very difficult thing, but I believe that most of you Americans are overreacting (FOX'ing it, if that is a valid therm)

[Jens]

And to be honest Jens if I were to ever visit Europe I'd plan to stay very far away from that despicable nation. My god that place must be awful and I'd never want to give my money to a nation that support such disgusting practices.

A pitty for you. The Netherlands are a beatiful country, I have visited on several ocations and you would easily be able to find people that agree with you by the way, but I personally wouldn't let political issues stop me from meting people

[Jens]

You don't support child euthanasia do you?

I know of cases when early born brain damaged children are kept alive for years where putting them out of their missery would be a good thing. As I say earlier in this thread, I look upon it as a very difficult thing, but I believe that most of you Americans are overreacting (FOX'ing it, if that is a valid therm)

Read this article Jens, it seems the Dutch are in good company.

Not comparable. The Nazis used force and as part of an ideology of "pureness." The Dutch legislation aquire the consent of the parents and two doctors

[Jens]

Putting kids "out of their misery" with the parents' consent strikes me as a great invasion of disability rights.

Again not talking about hadicapped, but terminally ill children, that are spared weeks, perhaps months or even years of misery. Modern medicin can keep people alive for a long time, eventhough they are bound to die

[Jens]

You don't support child euthanasia do you?

I know of cases when early born brain damaged children are kept alive for years where putting them out of their missery would be a good thing. As I say earlier in this thread, I look upon it as a very difficult thing, but I believe that most of you Americans are overreacting (FOX'ing it, if that is a valid therm)

Read this article Jens, it seems the Dutch are in good company.

Not comparable. The Nazis used force and as part of an ideology of "pureness." The Dutch legislation aquire the consent of the parents and two doctors

The first family consented to the actions of Hitler and his doctors.

Just realised that the link was to a David Irving page. I do not accept anything written by him. Please present me with another source

[Jens]

Putting kids "out of their misery" with the parents' consent strikes me as a great invasion of disability rights.

Again not talking about hadicapped, but terminally ill children, that are spared weeks, perhaps months or even years of misery. Modern medicin can keep people alive for a long time, eventhough they are bound to die

Aren't we all bound to die?

you are deliberately misinterpreteting me. These children will never live a full life and without aids they would surely die within a short timespan

[Jens]

[snip]

Thanks, it wasn't that I didn't believe you. I just don't trust anything written by David Irving

Still, the Nazi policiy and the one sugested by the Dutch are very different and the law will probably be used rarely. After all there ain't that many terminally ill children

<<Fixing urls - PB>>

[Jens]

Putting kids "out of their misery" with the parents' consent strikes me as a great invasion of disability rights.

Again not talking about hadicapped, but terminally ill children, that are spared weeks, perhaps months or even years of misery. Modern medicin can keep people alive for a long time, eventhough they are bound to die

Aren't we all bound to die?

you are deliberately misinterpreteting me. These children will never live a full life and without aids they would surely die within a short timespan

And I still don't see the reason to kill them.  They are not old enough to consent and just because two doctors think they can decide what his quality of life will be doesn't mean that his right to life should be taken away.  This must be the American in me but I believe in the right to life, not a doctor's definition of a "full life."

Finally an argument, that I can understand. And you are probably right, it is the American in you If I may elaborate, I think that euthanasia only is acceptable in a situation where the child would die anyway without mecanical or medical aids

[Jens]

Putting kids "out of their misery" with the parents' consent strikes me as a great invasion of disability rights.

Again not talking about hadicapped, but terminally ill children, that are spared weeks, perhaps months or even years of misery. Modern medicin can keep people alive for a long time, eventhough they are bound to die

Aren't we all bound to die?

you are deliberately misinterpreteting me. These children will never live a full life and without aids they would surely die within a short timespan

And I still don't see the reason to kill them.  They are not old enough to consent and just because two doctors think they can decide what his quality of life will be doesn't mean that his right to life should be taken away.  This must be the American in me but I believe in the right to life, not a doctor's definition of a "full life."

Finally an argument, that I can understand. And you are probably right, it is the American in you If I may elaborate, I think that euthanasia only is acceptable in a situation where the child would die anyway without mecanical or medical aids

Well, if I may say, there is no gaurantee that they won't be able to live a decent quality life in the future - in the time they are left alive, a breakthrough could be made that could treat or even cure their ailment. Doctors should try to improve the lives of these kinds of children, not put them down.

Well, breakthroughs don't happen over night and many of the rarer deseases are scaresly being recherced and for one major group, the early born, there are only microscopic chances that we will be able to repair a damaged brain